gibson bashing time! 3 words.
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Strat Avenger
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Bagman67 said:
I just can't picture a "plywood" rosewood fretboard.
thebutcher85
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Here's Gibson's new Les Paul model for 2012: :icon_thumright:
Cagey
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Street Avenger said:
I can. And if there's a way to oversell or overcharge you for something, Gibson will come up with it. What surprises me is that fretboards are already pretty thin, so how much farther can you stretch that piece of wood? You get to a point where you're creating more sawdust from the kerf than you're returning in useful parts, so what's the motivation?
The only thing I can figure is that the kerf loss is less than the shaping loss of a solid piece, so rather than mill a radius onto a solid piece, they shape something cheaper and put a thin layer of rosewood over that that doesn't need anything more than finish sanding. Think "photo top". The Rosewood could be thin enough to just follow the contour of its base material with no further shaping needed. Viola! Something that looks like Rosewood but costs half as much. Get the marketing weenies to add some weasel words with plenty of glowing adjectives to the press release, and you can probably even charge more for an inferior product.
Now, that sounds like something Gibson would do in a heartbeat.
Jusatele
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I am with Cagey on this
It seems under the current ownership/management of Gibson what we have seen is ways to cheapen the product with out return on price. They continue to find ways to turn out a lesser and lesser product while claiming to b the company 0f the early 1900s. It is sad to see them going down that road. It will only lead them to the path of Harley Davidson, Building and inferior product relying on a reputation that lives in a steadily aging faithful till they are like the current HD, I can buy a used HD for 1/4 of what it was worth 7 years ago.
We need Gibson to stand up and lead the way they did for 150 years, not try media hype to sell what we can buy from China. If in fact their quality is up to that what I have seen in the last 5 years is lower than China.
It seems under the current ownership/management of Gibson what we have seen is ways to cheapen the product with out return on price. They continue to find ways to turn out a lesser and lesser product while claiming to b the company 0f the early 1900s. It is sad to see them going down that road. It will only lead them to the path of Harley Davidson, Building and inferior product relying on a reputation that lives in a steadily aging faithful till they are like the current HD, I can buy a used HD for 1/4 of what it was worth 7 years ago.
We need Gibson to stand up and lead the way they did for 150 years, not try media hype to sell what we can buy from China. If in fact their quality is up to that what I have seen in the last 5 years is lower than China.
Thats interesting, as the big honcho at Gib, use to be at Harley D :doh: ...... oh dear .... :sad:
All thou ...
I have a 2007 LP that is just beautiful.
Did sell my 2009 DarkFire (when I found Warmoth)
The 2011 SG 61' reissue :icon_scratch: well that one debatable.
I reckon I could make a Warmoth SG that would kill it hands down.
Now there's an idea :icon_biggrin:
All thou ...
I have a 2007 LP that is just beautiful.
Did sell my 2009 DarkFire (when I found Warmoth)
The 2011 SG 61' reissue :icon_scratch: well that one debatable.
I reckon I could make a Warmoth SG that would kill it hands down.
Now there's an idea :icon_biggrin:
Cagey
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Interesting in that he doesn't understand English. "To all intensive purposes" ??? What the hell does that mean? I'm sure he meant to say "for all intents and purposes", but still. Hardly inspires confidence. I suppose it happens, though. You repeat things without thinking about what you're saying...
'Scuse me, while I kiss this guy!
'Scuse me, while I kiss this guy!
For all "intensive purposes", we are actually approaching, even surfing a great breach in the notion that if you want good information, you need to go to the "the experts" to get it, and you can always tell who the real smart guys are because the best experts are worth the most money. I mean, what is he saying here? It would "seem" to be damaged beyond all repair - to the rubes you want to trick into giving you lots of money? Except that's not true, because the rubes are finding out that "the experts" are corrupted by greed and about the last place you'll get good information about anything related to electric guitars is from someone trying to con you. "It would seem" my ass, because in the very next phrase, it's NOT?!? For all intensive purposes.... I'm not even going to search YouTube for "fixing headstock breaks", I don't need to. If I had to, I KNOW I can find everything I need to know - FREE.
The best software, that even the big companies have to use now because IT'S BEST - is the open-source freeware, Linux. Mozilla Firefox, Wikipedia - the Warmoth Forum, even - we're in the midst of a quiet revolution about the role of "expertise" and money, and the worth of knowledge. Clearly, there are a PILE of people not as invested in the greed-powered model as the model needs to sustain itself as even being "true", much less exclusionary. Millions, even billions worldwide? It didn't WORK, fukheads - the Big Con FAILED....
Remain subversive, my friends - we may not even have to eat the rich, which is fortunate because they are often quite greasy hence the stews, soups and sauce require constant skimming.
Torment Leaves Scars
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3 words?
Gibsons suck arse. :cool01:
Gibsons suck arse. :cool01:
Cagey
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StubHead said:
Well said.
The old model of "keeping secrets" is rapidly dying. It's becoming increasingly apparent that knowledge is next to worthless compared to having the balls and wherewithal to apply it. As a result, there's no reason to worry about its dissemination as some do - spreading knowledge doesn't reduce its value. In most cases, it increases it. Then, you still have roughly the same number of people who will use it, and they will get it whether you cooperate or not.
i was reading about this on a different forum a few days ago (recognized a certain fellow warmothian there)...and i was waiting for this thread to get started...
i am in awe as to just bad things have gotten at gibson...it is like watching a car crash (or celebrity burn outs)...you know it isn't going to end pretty...but you just...can't...look...away...
can someone educate me on gibson scale length...i think i read that the shorter gibson scale puts "less" tension on the strings...i could have swore it was the other
way around...i find bending and vibrato on a longer scale guitar (like a strat) much easier...i dunno, maybe it's all in my head...
i am in awe as to just bad things have gotten at gibson...it is like watching a car crash (or celebrity burn outs)...you know it isn't going to end pretty...but you just...can't...look...away...
can someone educate me on gibson scale length...i think i read that the shorter gibson scale puts "less" tension on the strings...i could have swore it was the other
way around...i find bending and vibrato on a longer scale guitar (like a strat) much easier...i dunno, maybe it's all in my head...
Cagey
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deajo said:
re: Gibson - I know what you mean. It's sad.
As for scale length - the shorter the string, the less tension it needs to vibrate at a given frequency. I know it's counter-intuitive, but it's true. You'd think that with more string to stretch, it would be easier to stretch it, but no. Usually when you find that a longer scale instrument feels slinkier, it's because it's got thinner strings or a vibrato bridge that gives when you put tension on it by stretching/bending a string. Gibsons usually don't have that feature. Most of their designs are hardtails.
Wanna prove it to yourself? Shorten a string by moving the bridge saddle closer to the nut. It'll raise in pitch without changing anything else. Of course, the reverse is true as well.
Strat Avenger
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'Not trying to re-hash old news, but while I thought it was foul the way the Feds raided Gibson at gunpoint, it really couldn't have happened to a more greedy company. It's kind'a hard to feel sorry for them (even though I am against the way the Feds handled it).
Torment Leaves Scars
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Street Avenger said:
I think they're all greedy, but that's just me.
Too bad it wasn't the "quality police" raiding them...
Death by Uberschall
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Why all this "greedy" talk. It's a business. You sell your product for the rate the market is willing to pay. And obviously, people are willing to pay Gibson.
