Floyd Rose going out of tune

[exaN]

I recently changed the string gauge on my Warmoth from 9s to 10s and I notice the guitar goes out of tune when going down only (the strings are broken in at this point), but if I pull up it goes back perfectly in tune. It never went out of tune before that. I'm guessing the non locking nut needs some filing for the new gauge? Any other possibilities?

 

[Logrinn]

I’m pretty sure that’s the reason for it going out of tune.

 

[guitarman]

You need more spring tension then. Thicker strings = more tension.

 

[Logrinn]

More spring tension will only change the angle of the bridge (and, yes, more is needed if one wants the same angle as before the change of heavier string gauge) but it won’t remedy the fact that the thicker strings now gets caught in the nut.

 

[AirCap]

Change in string gauge would mean the guitar would need to be intonated again.

 

[exaN]

I did adjust the spring tension and got it just as flat as it was before. I changed from Hybrid Slinkies to a regular D'Addario 10-46 set so it wasn't a big change. Only the G string goes sharp enough to notice the difference. I'm guessing the string doesn't have enough room in the nut to slide back into place on its own.

 

[fdesalvo]

If your base plate is level with the guitar tuned to pitch, the problem is almost certainly a binding issue at the nut.  I have a similar setup and have another build underway, as well: LSR nut + locking bridge.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Anytime that you change string gauges on a fully floating trem, it will most certainly involve a complete setup as if it were being set up for the first time, ie; action, bridge profile, intonation, truss rod adjustment, etc.

It's a completely different balance of tensions based on either an increase (up a gauge) or decrease (down a gauge) of string tension.  The string tension has to be balanced with spring tension to acquire the same action & straightness of the neck.  This will most certainly apply if changing the pitch for which the guitar is tuned, ie; D-Standard, C#, etc...

Even when I have flat mount bridges, such as on my Bari-Tele, I still adjust the neck, bridge saddle height, & intonation.

It's never a "set it & forget it" application unless you are repeatedly changing strings with the same brand/same gauge.

 

[DangerousR6]

Anytime that you change string gauges on a fully floating trem, it will most certainly involve a complete setup as if it were being set up for the first time, ie; action, bridge profile, intonation, truss rod adjustment, etc.

It's a completely different balance of tensions based on either an increase (up a gauge) or decrease (down a gauge) of string tension.  The string tension has to be balanced with spring tension to acquire the same action & straightness of the neck. 

Even when I have flat mount bridges, such as on my Bari-Tele, I still adjust the neck, bridge saddle height, & intonation.

It's never a "set it & forget it" application unless you are repeatedly changing strings with the same brand/same gauge.

100% correct, plus the strings are still stretching. Remember you're using thin metal wires, it will take a bit for them to normalize.

 

[Rick]

Yep, string tension changed things.  Some people like to be dot on tune, others can be a little off.  All depends on what you can tolerate.

 

[Verne Bunsen]

Are the strings going out of tune sharp? That most certainly indicates binding somewhere. The nut is a chief suspect as you mentioned. The tuners are also potential trouble spots if they are not locking and/or have excessive string wraps: the wraps will relax when the trem is lowered and when tension is restored they do not always seat quite as tightly as they were. A well cut nut and locking tuners properly wound will probably cure what ails you.

 

[DangerousR6]

Are the strings going out of tune sharp? That most certainly indicates binding somewhere. The nut is a chief suspect as you mentioned. The tuners are also potential trouble spots if they are not locking and/or have excessive string wraps: the wraps will relax when the trem is lowered and when tension is restored they do not always seat quite as tightly as they were. A well cut nut and locking tuners properly wound will probably cure what ails you.

It's a Floyd, so most likely he has a locking nut and not locking tuners...

 

[exaN]

Are the strings going out of tune sharp? That most certainly indicates binding somewhere. The nut is a chief suspect as you mentioned. The tuners are also potential trouble spots if they are not locking and/or have excessive string wraps: the wraps will relax when the trem is lowered and when tension is restored they do not always seat quite as tightly as they were. A well cut nut and locking tuners properly wound will probably cure what ails you.

It's a Floyd, so most likely he has a locking nut and not locking tuners...

The nut is actually non locking, the tuners are though. It didn't go out of tune whatsoever before the string change so I think we can rule the tuners out. When going down and back to neutral, all the strings also go flat very very slightly (not noticeable), but the G string goes sharp just enough to make a difference (especially since the others go slightly flat). I think I'll widen the G string slot a tiny bit and see if that does it. Thanks!

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Did you go up a gauge or go down a gauge?

Did you change pitch at all?

 

[exaN]

Did you go up a gauge or go down a gauge?

Did you change pitch at all?

I went from 9-11-16-26-36-46 to 10-13-17-26-36-46 (same tuning) so again, not a huge change here.

 

[AirCap]

ANY change of gauge is a big change when talking about a BALANCED system.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Did you go up a gauge or go down a gauge?

Did you change pitch at all?

I went from 9-11-16-26-36-46 to 10-13-17-26-36-46 (same tuning) so again, not a huge change here.

Actually, the 10 & the 17 are plenty enough to offset the tension.

Block the trem, Loosen the claw so that the block sits in between the block and the body so the body acts like a hardtail & there are no springs in the system yet: set the action, truss rod, overall setup, intonation, then adjust the spring claw back until the system floats in the blocked position.
This takes a while if you're not very familiar with this.

 

[exaN]

Did you go up a gauge or go down a gauge?

Did you change pitch at all?

I went from 9-11-16-26-36-46 to 10-13-17-26-36-46 (same tuning) so again, not a huge change here.

Actually, the 10 & the 17 are plenty enough to offset the tension.

Block the trem, Loosen the claw so that the block sits in between the block and the body so the body acts like a hardtail & there are no springs in the system yet: set the action, truss rod, overall setup, intonation, then adjust the spring claw back until the system floats in the blocked position.
This takes a while if you're not very familiar with this.

Fair enough, do you think that could actually be the reason the G string goes out of tune? I did get the bridge completely flat with the body without that much trouble after the string change by adjusting the spring tension and retuning the guitar to pitch little by little until the bridge was flat, and the guitar plays just as well. I'll definitely check how much it affected the intonation though.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Ultimately, the bridge needs to be in a fixed position up until you adjust the claw.
Any activity prior to that where the bridge remains in a floating position will cause you to get to the end result far more slowly, and your strings will keep stretching as you get there.

The method I referred to allows you to get the bridge into a fixed position so that you can do the basic setup in that position, and ultimately, intonate while the strings are fresh (unstretched).  After that, I stretch the living shiznat out of the strings, retune, then adjust the claw so that when I remove the trem-block, the sustain block is exactly where it was before I removed the trem-block from the non-spring side.

 

[exaN]

That's great to know, thanks for the advice .

My next guitar will definitely have a non floating trem :laughing11: .