Custom Body: To Order or Not To Order?

[Cactus Jack]

My Warmoth days are winding down. I built four guitars this past year, all of which I've gifted to my kids and family. Before I venture out into the greater guitar universe I'm going to build one last one for myself.

My question is this, should I custom order the body? I'm struggling because I've returned every custom order item I've purchased, but do want a configuration which isn't available through the Showcase. I spoke with Warmoth today, told them I'm planning a $600+ quilt maple top build and was told I could expect $400 Showcase quality. I know the quality is hit and miss, which is why I've returned my previous purchases, but I figured that was the exception, not the norm.

For those of you who have custom ordered bodies, have you been pleased with the results? I do not want to pay $600+ for $400 quality and I don't understand how that computes for either party. Also, I'm not interested in going the Unique Choice route. With all that said, I already have the neck coming, and know what I want, and I'm quickly getting full on build fever . I also already have the pickups and the hardware staring me down!

Let me know what your experience has been. Thanks for your time, and I hope all is well!

 

[BroccoliRob]

yo that post is like crackers in bed, cuz its a #mess.

what r u talking about $600 for $400 quality, how are you calculating that?? you just talking about the quilt top? yea I mean they prolly dont pick those bonkers UChoice tops for $400 in stock bods, dood. Any1 here can spec a body with a regular quilt top and make it more expensive than a stock body, but that doesn't mean u should suddenl y expect an upgraded top.

 

[Cactus Jack]

It's pretty clear. The custom body I want to build is $600+. Per Warmoth, the quality of the quilt I can expect is the equivalent of a $400 Showcase top. Take a look in the Showcase, those tops are B quality at best. B quality for a premium price seems like a fundamental misalignment. I'm not calculating anything, this is from Warmoth customer support. Maybe they are setting expectations low. However, in no case, do I expect Unique Choice quality, but I would expect some standard level of quality for a given price point.

To clarify my question a bit, I know many folks have built non-Unique Choice bodies and have received some great bodies. Is that the norm, or are folks receiving lower grade bodies? Ordering a custom body is a risk. Warmoth provides zero assurance around quality besides setting low expectations. My personal experience in building a custom body was not good. If other folks have had great results I'll probably roll the dice again, but the black-box approach is a challenging proposition.

For those of you who have taken the plunge, how have the results been? Have you been please with the results? I'm specifically interested from hearing from folks who have ordered standard issue figured maple tops.

 

[PhilHill]

It strikes me that you don't seem to have a very high opinion of Warmoth's work, judging by this post and others. So, my simple question would be, Why do you order from them? No attempt to insult, just a simple question...... :dontknow:

 

[DuckBaloo]

It's pretty clear.

I don't think you explained it as well as you think you have. But I think I get the drift.

Do I think it's okay to charge $600 for a custom build that might otherwise sell for $400 in the Showcase? Yes. What they build to put int he showcase is a decision they make based on their own market knowledge, aesthetic tastes, or whims. Building custom for one person is different, and takes on additional risk (like returns).

I'm looking that the ~$425 (finished) options in the Showcase and I'm having a hard time finding a top that I hate, most easily have enough figuring to qualify as AAA from builders, which should be easy since Warmoth only uses a 1/8" laminate. What people consider great flame or quilt is a very subjective choice. You are at their mercy unless you want to pay for a unique top.

There is some inherent danger in buying before seeing. I don't know many builders that let you select the top ahead of time. Being able to hand-select woods is a benefit of those who have their own home shop. In some cases, even the luthier doesn't know what grain they'll find once they split, book-match, plan and join the top, they just know it will NOT be the same as top of the board.

Why did you return they other custom bodies, were there defects in workmanship or was it subjective reasons about appearance?

 

[Kostas]

All the bodies I bought where from the showcase because I wanted to see first how the top looked and have no surprises. On the other hand, all necks except one were custom orders because what I want is not popular and I couldn't find it in the showcase no matter how long I was going to wait. First guitar was in 2007, last in 2014. In my experience, they were more eager to hear what I wanted in the first guitars than the last. Last neck was $600+ AAA flame maple neck, I expected it more figured, AAA is supposed to be the most figured the brand is offering and the cost was significant. Not a bad looking neck and I had opted for a unique choice fretboard that I love so I kept it but not exactly what I was expecting.

I don't understand what a $400 top and a $600 top are, can you post two photos that represent those numbers? There are different types of quilts & flames, not everyone like the same. Personally I wouldn't pay either for a DL top, I find that unacceptable for a custom shop like Warmoth, veneers are for budget instruments. I also wouldn't custom order if I was so picky, there's no fun to pay, wait and then probably send it back. When someone's options doesn't cover your needs you look somewhere else.

 

[Cactus Jack]

It strikes me that you don't seem to have a very high opinion of Warmoth's work, judging by this post and others. So, my simple question would be, Why do you order from them? No attempt to insult, just a simple question...... :dontknow:

You're right. I'm an outsider in terms of this forum's general appreciation for Warmoth. Unlike most, I like the company, but I don't love them. You're observation is 100% spot on.

To answer your question I've spent thousands of dollars with Warmoth for a few reasons. First and foremost, I've come to really enjoy assembling guitars. It's an awesome hobby, which my kids love doing with me. That alone means a lot. Second, all of the guitars I've built are gifts. Investing blood sweat and tears makes the gift that much more meaningful to give. Finally, after assessing all options, Warmoth in my opinion is the best place to source parts. After adding it all up the pros outweigh the cons.

With all that said, this is my last Warmoth build. I like the products enough to make another $1K+ investment, I know what I want to build, but I am ready to check out some new stuff, boutique builders, local luthiers etc. Part of why I'm moving on is because I find the custom build process difficult and confusing to navigate. I don't know what Warmoth's standards are, and unfortunately my personal experience with a custom order wasn't great. I was further confused by the response I received from customer service, which makes the decision that much more difficult. However, customer services response aligns with my personal experience so my question has probably been answered. I was hoping my experience was atypical, but if it is infact the norm, thats good to know. I'll simply wait for a Showcase body to pop up and build something close to what I have in mind, which I'm fine with.

 

[Cactus Jack]

All the bodies I bought where from the showcase because I wanted to see first how the top looked and have no surprises. On the other hand, all necks except one were custom orders because what I want is not popular and I couldn't find it in the showcase no matter how long I was going to wait. First guitar was in 2007, last in 2014. In my experience, they were more eager to hear what I wanted in the first guitars than the last. Last neck was $600+ AAA flame maple neck, I expected it more figured, AAA is supposed to be the most figured the brand is offering and the cost was significant. Not a bad looking neck and I had opted for a unique choice fretboard that I love so I kept it but not exactly what I was expecting.

I don't understand what a $400 top and a $600 top are, can you post two photos that represent those numbers? There are different types of quilts & flames, not everyone like the same. Personally I wouldn't pay either for a DL top, I find that unacceptable for a custom shop like Warmoth, veneers are for budget instruments. I also wouldn't custom order if I was so picky, there's no fun to pay, wait and then probably send it back. When someone's options doesn't cover your needs you look somewhere else.

Sorry for the confusion regarding the tops. I was trying to say customer service let me know that a $600+ quilt top Non-Unique Choice custom build body would be the equivalent of a $400 quilt top Showcase body. Below are a few current $400 quilt tops. If that's what I can reasonably expect then a custom build is not right for me at this time. For what it's worth, the top I received last year was much better than those shown. 

 

[War_in_D]

I've usually always ordered out of the Showcase, mainly because I want to see what I'm getting before I put down cash.  I have, however, ordered one custom made body because I wanted something lightweight (chambered) and was very pleased with the level of flame on the top of the body I received.  Attached are a couple of pictures below.  I did reach out to Warmoth at the time of order and asked them to "pick me a good one".  I was referred back to the Unique Choice selections, but didn't want to pay the extra.  So, I made the comment that as long as the top was similar in quality/figuring to the stock photo option they use when you're building the body.. that would be good enough for me.  I felt like that is what I received, so I was quite pleased with it. 

 

[Kostas]

...I was trying to say customer service let me know that a $600+ quilt top Non-Unique Choice custom build body would be the equivalent of a $400 quilt top Showcase body...

Personally I wouldn't call quilt maple any of these tops.

Why a $600 custom order body can't be equivalent to a $600 showcase body? They don't have many currently but these two is what I call quilt maple.

https://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/ShowcaseItem.aspx?Body=2&Path=Spotlight&lamTop=8&sort=price&i=pt8428
https://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/ShowcaseItem.aspx?Body=2&Path=Spotlight&lamTop=8&sort=price&i=ps15055

Here are a few photos of what I call exceptionally symmetric quilt maple top, Warmoth has offered tons of them in the showcase over the years. I'm guessing they still offer similar tops.

https://imgur.com/a/kdO93lt

 

[Cactus Jack]

I've usually always ordered out of the Showcase, mainly because I want to see what I'm getting before I put down cash.  I have, however, ordered one custom made body because I wanted something lightweight (chambered) and was very pleased with the level of flame on the top of the body I received.  Attached are a couple of pictures below.  I did reach out to Warmoth at the time of order and asked them to "pick me a good one".  I was referred back to the Unique Choice selections, but didn't want to pay the extra.  So, I made the comment that as long as the top was similar in quality/figuring to the stock photo option they use when you're building the body.. that would be good enough for me.  I felt like that is what I received, so I was quite pleased with it.

Thanks! This is exactly the reply I was looking for. I appreciate you taking the time to share the pics, and awesome job on the finish! Super unique and looks pure rock and roll. I really like the control layout.

 

[Cactus Jack]

...I was trying to say customer service let me know that a $600+ quilt top Non-Unique Choice custom build body would be the equivalent of a $400 quilt top Showcase body...

Personally I wouldn't call quilt maple any of these tops.

Why a $600 custom order body can't be equivalent to a $600 showcase body? They don't have many currently but these two is what I call quilt maple.

https://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/ShowcaseItem.aspx?Body=2&Path=Spotlight&lamTop=8&sort=price&i=pt8428
https://www.warmoth.com/Showcase/ShowcaseItem.aspx?Body=2&Path=Spotlight&lamTop=8&sort=price&i=ps15055

Here are a few photos of what I call exceptionally symmetric quilt maple top, Warmoth has offered tons of them in the showcase over the years. I'm guessing they still offer similar tops.

https://imgur.com/a/kdO93lt

Thanks for sharing. Below is a quilt top I bought for less than $600. The Showcase provides great value. As such, I'm going to pass on a custom order. At the end of the day I am super picky and don't want to play the pay, wait, return game. That's not good for anyone. I wrestled with this exact issue with my first custom order. It's nice Warmoth offers both options.

 

[PhilHill]

It strikes me that you don't seem to have a very high opinion of Warmoth's work, judging by this post and others. So, my simple question would be, Why do you order from them? No attempt to insult, just a simple question...... :dontknow:

You're right. I'm an outsider in terms of this forum's general appreciation for Warmoth. Unlike most, I like the company, but I don't love them. You're observation is 100% spot on.

To answer your question I've spent thousands of dollars with Warmoth for a few reasons. First and foremost, I've come to really enjoy assembling guitars. It's an awesome hobby, which my kids love doing with me. That alone means a lot. Second, all of the guitars I've built are gifts. Investing blood sweat and tears makes the gift that much more meaningful to give. Finally, after assessing all options, Warmoth in my opinion is the best place to source parts. After adding it all up the pros outweigh the cons.

With all that said, this is my last Warmoth build. I like the products enough to make another $1K+ investment, I know what I want to build, but I am ready to check out some new stuff, boutique builders, local luthiers etc. Part of why I'm moving on is because I find the custom build process difficult and confusing to navigate. I don't know what Warmoth's standards are, and unfortunately my personal experience with a custom order wasn't great. I was further confused by the response I received from customer service, which makes the decision that much more difficult. However, customer services response aligns with my personal experience so my question has probably been answered. I was hoping my experience was atypical, but if it is infact the norm, thats good to know. I'll simply wait for a Showcase body to pop up and build something close to what I have in mind, which I'm fine with.

Ok, fair enough. Just curious.

 

[Kostas]

...Below is a quilt top I bought for less than $600...

That's a proper quilt maple top. Here's mine, showcase body + custom color cost a little more than $600 on Jaunary 2008 (you made me check my receipts).

With my Warmoth builds I've made true all my figured wood wishes I had as a teen/young guy. I have spalted/flame/quilt maple and burl mahogany.

 

[Cactus Jack]

Stunning! Is that a Black Korina body under there too?

When I think of quilt maple bodies I think of ones that look similar to ours. Just my personal opinion, but at the $600+ price point, I don't think it's outrageous to expect similar quality from a custom build. The Showcase does provide great value though. 

 

[BroccoliRob]

Bruh, u are basically saying that jus cuz youre choosing various other features (not related to the lam top) which make the price go to $600 that u are therefore somehow entitled to a better grade of top.

you could be a washing machine with all that spin

 

[docteurseb]

It would be unreasonable to expect that high grade tubular quilt at the base price.
You might get lucky, but odds aren't in your favor. I know I wouldn't do it for quilt because I'm too picky with the figuring to take the chance. If you've managed to somehow return every single custom order I sure wouldn't recommend that you take the chance either.

If it's the exact type of figure you want, either pick one from the laminate top choice in the custom builder if there is one you like (plenty of good looking ones but none I would personally like at the moment), or reach out to their customer reps to see if they could assist you finding something you like.
Not sure they'd be open to doing the latter at this time given how busy they still are.
Either way, your $600 body will be more like a $800-$900 once you do that (but you'll have exactly what you want).

Finally, how exactly do you manage to return every single custom order ? That's impressively unusual.
Is that for cosmetic reasons because the top/fingerboard/neck doesn't look like the figuring you thought you'd get even though no such guarantee was made ?
Or more functional flaws/nit-picking. I've returned couple things in recent years that I considered weren't perfect enough, though never a custom order (I did cancel a body that was being painted, the 25% fee was fair and meant someone was able to get a body from the showcase at reduced cost).

Note: showcase is typically 25-ish% off on finished bodies compared to a custom order of identical specs.

 

[Cactus Jack]

Nobody should expect high grade tubular quilt. That's the purpose of the Unique Choice option, which was never a consideration for this project.

I'm still surprised that custom built bodies are more expensive and potentially lower quality than equivalent priced Showcase bodies. As I've mentioned several times now, it drives home the value of the Showcase. I'm definitely a Showcase buyer.

I've only purchased two custom order items, which is why I was hoping my experience was atypical. One was vintage tint neck, which was more yellow than vintage, and the other was a quilt body. Based upon my experience with other brands I incorrectly assumed all figured wood exhibited some form or chatoyance. After purchasing 3 high end figure top Showcase bodies which exhibit no depth or movement I realize I was wrong. I've accepted it as a Warmoth thing, and the expectation gap is closed. lesson learned. However, if I'm giving up chatoyance I don't want to leave the grain pattern to chance, which is why I'll be camped out in the Showcase.

Thanks again everyone for the feedback. I appreciate your time and insight.

 

[stratamania]

I cannot help getting a feeling of déjà vu as the $600 versus $400, custom versus showcase discussion goes back to this thread from almost a year ago.

https://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=31308.msg440673#msg440673

Realistically I would say that there is a slim chance your own personal expectations will be met. So unless there is something in the showcase probably better for you personally not to custom order.

That is not to say that the quality of custom orders is not good it just is your personal view of what you are looking for and expectation is different.

 

[docteurseb]

Showcase price differential is there because:
- it's likely a great and needed source of cash flow. Not everyone wants to wait 2+ months for a finished body. The showcase is also a fantastic source of temptation for impulse purchases that would otherwise not happen.

- they need to move inventory, anything that sits too long is money lost had that space been taken up by something more popular. They can price them as high as custom orders but they would then all sit much longer. That's not a concern with custom orders.

- one-offs require more time spent at every step.
It may not be exciting to build 10 SSS vintage Strat bodies painted in solid black for company, but it's immensely faster than building 10 custom orders from different individuals all with different body shapes/routing/colors.