Considering a Modern Tiltback Strat neck ...

[Scab Pickens]

I have a bit of time to figure this one out. Trying to decide which way to go on a neck for the body in my avatar pic (2 humbucker Tele with Strat neck pocket). The Modern Tiltback necks intrigue me on a Fender type build.

Anyone here have experience with them compared to a Vintage/Modern as far as string tension goes? I am most likely looking at a Modern Tiltback Strat neck versus a Vintage/Modern Strat neck. I am actually looking for a stiffer feel on this one.

I have a Tele neck (Vintage/Modern) which plays absolutely beautifully with no string trees and staggered Schaller tuners (1-3/4 nut, Standard Thin).

So ... any difference in string tension between the Standard (Vintage/Modern) and Tiltback? I'm looking at a 1-3/4 SRV if it makes any difference. Possibly this combo of woods and such ...

 

[stratamania]

String tension is due to pitch and scale length for a given string gauge. In other words, if the scale length is 25.5 inches (0.65 m) and you are using a set of 9s they will be at the same tension when tuned to pitch regardless of the type of bridge, tuners, tilt etc. A set of 10s would need to have more tension, but again would be subject to the same laws of physics.

But there are folks who think various factors contribute to a different string “tension”. However, as above, the physics means that if you have a different string tension on the same string and scale length, the pitch alters. What folks are referring to I believe is how something feels to them, such as “I prefer this guitar over the other of the same type as it feels less stiff”. So, how something feels is often subjective.

So, a tilt back neck uses a modern construction versus a vintage modern. Some would say that a modern neck can have a stiffer feel compared to a vintage modern construction, but that is not due to string tension.

As you are using a fixed bridge, you also do not need to consider having straight string pull such as may be a factor when using a non locking tremolo.

 

[supertruper1988]

The "tension" that is being referred to here is exactly a feel thing because the tension of the string is same regardless but various other design factors like length of a string beyond the nut or saddle can influence how the string behaves while playing. especially in bending and such.

A simple example is that a guitar with a floyd rose feels different to me when the string locks are engaged/disengaged.

 

[supertruper1988]

but to answer the question in the OP, the feel of a modern tiltback neck will be in the same ball park as as an ibanez or ltd/esp or other inline titlback necks on the market.

 

[stratamania]

The "tension" that is being referred to here is exactly a feel thing because the tension of the string is same regardless but various other design factors like length of a string beyond the nut or saddle can influence how the string behaves while playing. especially in bending and such.

Indeed, the subjective “feel” as perceived when bending and such may change due to string length beyond a saddle or nut. Regardless, the actual tension (as defined in physics) of the string for a given pitch between the nut and the bridge remains the same.

 

[Waraxe]

No tension difference as stated above.

The tailback headstock merely eliminates string trees. It'll also help with tuning on a trem equipped guitar.

As far as "stiff" goes, I have my opinions......
The stiffness most talk about is the actual flex, or resistance to, in the completed neck.

Physically stiffer necks play stiffer that more flexible ones.
The double rod adds a bit of stiffness.

To me they play a bit stiffer. They also seem to transmit more energy to the body.

 

[Scab Pickens]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm probably overthinking this. Yeah, "string tension" was the wrong terminology to use. I guess I was thinking more about the break angle over the nut and if it effects the general "feel". I am (in my mind) comparing a six-on-a-side standard headstock with staggered Schaller tuners (no string trees) with a tiltback. Hardtail bridge. The more I think about it, the more I will just let this one drift away into the sunset ...

There is still a good chance I will go 3+3 on the headstock. I already have a set of tuners for that application. Just saw a neck pop up in the showcase that looks pretty temping. Not a 1-3/4 SRV, but ...

 

[stratamania]

Of course, if you go for a 3 + # headstock, it is also tilted back.

The tailback headstock merely eliminates string trees. It'll also help with tuning on a trem equipped guitar.

String trees can also be eliminated on a straight headstock with a well cut nut and staggered tuners. Or even with the string wraps creating a stagger.

But a tilt back neck will not help with tuning on a non locking trem equipped guitar. Actually, the opposite, as it creates something further away from a straight string pull, which is why I wrote the below earlier in the post.

As you are using a fixed bridge, you also do not need to consider having straight string pull such as may be a factor when using a non locking tremolo.

 

[Waraxe]

Of course, if you go for a 3 + # headstock, it is also tilted back.



String trees can also be eliminated on a straight headstock with a well cut nut and staggered tuners. Or even with the string wraps creating a stagger.

But a tilt back neck will not help with tuning on a non locking trem equipped guitar. Actually, the opposite, as it creates something further away from a straight string pull, which is why I wrote the below earlier in the post.

I was comparing to a traditional fender product with string trees, sorry.

Staggered tuners and such have gone a long way to help solve that issue.

There could perhaps be a bit of bias on my part? Lol
I was all about 6 inline headstocks and the "straight" string pull when I started out, being ibamez rg tiltback and the traditional fender straight ones.

I was surprised when I just checked my stash. It's 6 to 3 in favor of 3x3 or 4+2 tiltbacks vs 6 inline, and a whopping 8 to 1 in tilts favor as the ibbys are tilters as well as inline.

I see a ven diagram.......

 

[rauchman]

I have Tele Vintage/Modern, Warhawk Vintage/Modern and Strat 24.75" Tiltback necks.

From my experience...

Tension, or rather "feel" is more attributable to pitch, scale length, string gauge, hard tail vs tremolo and how the action is set.

I use staggered tuners on the Vintage / Moderns, but with the Tele neck, I had to get a string tree due to buzzing. The guitar with the Warhawk VM uses a Wilkinson VS100 bridge and LSR nut. I don't get buzzing issues with this setup

For the Strat Tiltback 24.75" scale neck, I specifically wanted this neck for the following reasons....

• I wanted to carve a Fender Elite / Ultra neck heel. The Modern necks with straight headstocks and side adjust truss does not allow for this
• I wanted a trem to be used (Gotoh 510 narrow space), and the Strat headstock allows for a straight to tuner alignment without lateral dispersion, such as found on the Warmoth / Vortex headstocks. I had brought the neck to a luthier and he made me a delrin nut since he found this material provided for optimal tuning using a trem. A touch of "nut sauce" helps with this too
• The 24.75" scale, since I've always played a Les Paul, feels like home to me. As a bonus, this scale in conjunction with a trem and 9 gauge stings, provides for a very spongy action, which I like.

 

[TBurst Std]

Well first, the Vortex headstock is close, but not a true straight line to tuner.
Any fender style headstock with staggered tuners and a properly cut nut will not require trees.
You can search this here from a number of years ago as I did an analysis on string angle between the Vortex, Warmoth and PRS headstocks

 

[Rick]

I remember that analysis!

 

[rockandroller]

The commonly-accepted technical term for this 'easy-feel' is "compliance", and the more break angle you have at the nut or the bridge, the stiffer it feels (less compliance). My friend Heiko talks about the science behind it here: https://www.premierguitar.com/the-break-dance-behind-the-bridge

 

[Scab Pickens]

Thanks for the additional comments, guys. I am thinking the tiltback is the way to go on this one. I really just want to try something different. I think the Warmoth headstock shape on the Tele body might look pretty cool. Then again, the Strat headstock on a Tele is something I have always wanted and the tiltback would be even more unique.

I think I'm just going to keep my eye on the (ever evolving) showcase for something special while I wait for the body to get finished. I kind of want to see the body colors before making a final decision on the neck (unless I see something before then that seems to have my name written all over it!).

 

[Scab Pickens]

Well, crap ... the damage is done for now. I've been eyeballing this one up for a few days. I just couldn't stop looking at it. Every time I came back to it, I thought "you need to be mine!". I guess it will be mine, then, since I just bought it ... .

 

[Bruce Campbell]

Well first, the Vortex headstock is close, but not a true straight line to tuner.
Any fender style headstock with staggered tuners and a properly cut nut will not require trees.
You can search this here from a number of years ago as I did an analysis on string angle between the Vortex, Warmoth and PRS headstocks

Was this the thread?

Straight String Pull measurements

This is/was something I was interested in myself, and had been working on. Below are my observations: OK made some measurements, some of which Cagey provided. All measurements were made on headstocks with a 1 11/16 nut and Schaller tuners, so 6 mm posts. These measurements are the Inside to...

unofficialwarmoth.com

 

[TBurst Std]

Yep, that’s it