Balancing Pickups
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jackthehack
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If you're looking at Fralins you can order the Tele bridge PU overwound
jackthehack
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Max said:
Not fundamentally, mainly just more output
That balance is backwards, you'll want the neck to have less output, because it's sampling a string that's vibrating more. For classic Tele twang, you don't want overwound - a good matching humbucker might be one of the low-powered Gretsch-style pickups. A LOT of people using that setup install a "trimpot" under the control plate - it's a screw-controlled potentiometer that can be used to balance the humbucker volume, you'll see a tiny extra hole drilled in the control plate for the screwdriver to fit through. I'm not sure what Keef does... :cool01:
Another approach is to utilize the imbalance, you have a low-volume twang and a high-volume roar, but that does make the middle positions useless. My fave stage setup is the opposite, a bridge HB for the Allman/Page/Santana thing, and a neck single for the Eric Johnson/SRV/Hendrix strat thing. I use concentric tone/volumes for each, but they won't fit in a conventional tele control slot, unless you go mini. Warmoth can back-route a Tele, if you want more room to play in.
I would email Fralin when you're close to buying. In the meantime, start looking at the output values on mixed sets of Strat pickups available at DiMarzio, Duncan, everywhere. You can get some kind of idea about the relative balance of outputs that most people have found to work well.
(I personally will never put a humbucker more powerful than that Fralin on the neck, as the neck pickup's magnets affect sustain. This, and not simplemindedness, is what's actually behind those one-pickup guitars. Any sort of PAF-type, 7-8K is OK, but I've seen 17-horsepower Invaders and X2N's and L500XL's on the neck? Oh well, enough fuzztone can cure everything.)
arty07:
Another approach is to utilize the imbalance, you have a low-volume twang and a high-volume roar, but that does make the middle positions useless. My fave stage setup is the opposite, a bridge HB for the Allman/Page/Santana thing, and a neck single for the Eric Johnson/SRV/Hendrix strat thing. I use concentric tone/volumes for each, but they won't fit in a conventional tele control slot, unless you go mini. Warmoth can back-route a Tele, if you want more room to play in.
I would email Fralin when you're close to buying. In the meantime, start looking at the output values on mixed sets of Strat pickups available at DiMarzio, Duncan, everywhere. You can get some kind of idea about the relative balance of outputs that most people have found to work well.
(I personally will never put a humbucker more powerful than that Fralin on the neck, as the neck pickup's magnets affect sustain. This, and not simplemindedness, is what's actually behind those one-pickup guitars. Any sort of PAF-type, 7-8K is OK, but I've seen 17-horsepower Invaders and X2N's and L500XL's on the neck? Oh well, enough fuzztone can cure everything.)
arty07:Thanks, that was kinda what I was thinking. Especially that part about the small potentiometer. Any clue where one of those can be gotten and how to wire it up?stubhead said:That balance is backwards, you'll want the neck to have less output, because it's sampling a string that's vibrating more. For classic Tele twang, you don't want overwound - a good matching humbucker might be one of the low-powered Gretsch-style pickups. A LOT of people using that setup install a "trimpot" under the control plate - it's a screw-controlled potentiometer that can be used to balance the humbucker volume, you'll see a tiny extra hole drilled in the control plate for the screwdriver to fit through. I'm not sure what Keef does... :cool01:
Another approach is to utilize the imbalance, you have a low-volume twang and a high-volume roar, but that does make the middle positions useless. My fave stage setup is the opposite, a bridge HB for the Allman/Page/Santana thing, and a neck single for the Eric Johnson/SRV/Hendrix strat thing. I use concentric tone/volumes for each, but they won't fit in a conventional tele control slot, unless you go mini. Warmoth can back-route a Tele, if you want more room to play in.
I would email Fralin when you're close to buying. In the meantime, start looking at the output values on mixed sets of Strat pickups available at DiMarzio, Duncan, everywhere. You can get some kind of idea about the relative balance of outputs that most people have found to work well.
(I personally will never put a humbucker more powerful than that Fralin on the neck, as the neck pickup's magnets affect sustain. This, and not simplemindedness, is what's actually behind those one-pickup guitars. Any sort of PAF-type, 7-8K is OK, but I've seen 17-horsepower Invaders and X2N's and L500XL's on the neck? Oh well, enough fuzztone can cure everything.)
GoDrex
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Not sure why anyone would put a 17k invader in the neck position when they make a neck version that is 7k
I really think this is a non-issue with these pickups. If you look at Fralin's site, his STOCK tele replacements have the very similar outputs.
The neck is 7k and the bridge is 6.6 and you can go up to 6.8 and 7.2.
I really think this is a non-issue with these pickups. If you look at Fralin's site, his STOCK tele replacements have the very similar outputs.
The neck is 7k and the bridge is 6.6 and you can go up to 6.8 and 7.2.
I don't think the point of HB neck / SC bridge combo is to have a perfectly balanced match. 7.5k is a pretty tame HB, it will probably sound ok. I would wire it up first and if you find the middle position unusable, maybe add in a small resistor in series with the neck pup.. Or as suggested, get a slightly overwound bridge pup.
Also, pickup height can make a big difference in output, so back the HB away from the strings, and raise the SC until they sound more or less balanced. Your ears will be more useful than test equipment.
Also, pickup height can make a big difference in output, so back the HB away from the strings, and raise the SC until they sound more or less balanced. Your ears will be more useful than test equipment.
Well it's just a matter of matching the volume between the two pups close enough, I know you can hear that since you have a musical background. The amount of DC resistance on a pup is not the only thing that affects volume/output, type of magnets, etc. also comes into play, and how close the magnets are to the strings can make a noticeable difference.
If it were me, I guess I'd get a slightly overwound bridge pup, and just adjust pickup height to get a balance that sounded good to my ears... I don't think you'll have any trouble... even with a vintage output pup in the bridge.
If it were me, I guess I'd get a slightly overwound bridge pup, and just adjust pickup height to get a balance that sounded good to my ears... I don't think you'll have any trouble... even with a vintage output pup in the bridge.
O
OzziePete
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Max ,
The issue of balancing a humbucker in the neck position and a single coil in the bridge has been an issue from the time that folks first tried that combo.
I have a Guild humbucker that came out of a jazz guitar from the 70s and its rated only rated about 7.5K. But in the neck position, from what I recall, it is very rich and full sounding.
I had the Guild in the neck and a genuine Fender L series Tele bridge pickup in the bridge position. The humbucker is way too powerful, but then again, the Tele pickup I have is quite low in output rating (but it sounds Swwweet). Since that time, I have built a Tele from Warmoth and accomodated the Tele bridge pickup by itself in Esquire configuration. But I miss the Guild's sounds.
I'm still trying to decide whether to upgrade my Warmoth Tele with the L series bridge pickup and rout out a humbucker in the neck position and go for the Guild again.
Maybe getting a jazz humbucker, which are usually quite low in output, will match up a slightly hotter version of a Tele bridge pickup?
Physically setting the humbucker lower will help too.
For middle position sounds, there maybe a possibility of splitting the humbucker when it goes into the middle position and having that split coil sound mixed with the bridge pickup in parallel? But to do that to a humbucker you would need to get a humbucker that has 4 wires, plus the ground.
The issue of balancing a humbucker in the neck position and a single coil in the bridge has been an issue from the time that folks first tried that combo.
I have a Guild humbucker that came out of a jazz guitar from the 70s and its rated only rated about 7.5K. But in the neck position, from what I recall, it is very rich and full sounding.
I had the Guild in the neck and a genuine Fender L series Tele bridge pickup in the bridge position. The humbucker is way too powerful, but then again, the Tele pickup I have is quite low in output rating (but it sounds Swwweet). Since that time, I have built a Tele from Warmoth and accomodated the Tele bridge pickup by itself in Esquire configuration. But I miss the Guild's sounds.
I'm still trying to decide whether to upgrade my Warmoth Tele with the L series bridge pickup and rout out a humbucker in the neck position and go for the Guild again.
Maybe getting a jazz humbucker, which are usually quite low in output, will match up a slightly hotter version of a Tele bridge pickup?
Physically setting the humbucker lower will help too.
For middle position sounds, there maybe a possibility of splitting the humbucker when it goes into the middle position and having that split coil sound mixed with the bridge pickup in parallel? But to do that to a humbucker you would need to get a humbucker that has 4 wires, plus the ground.
i'm curently having my tele fitted with a volume pot and a blend switch. as a bass player it works well when you need to go from a heavy bottom rock line to a poppin' funk line on the next song. i've dealt with the 2 vol, 2 tone combo before. it just seams easier to be able to dial between the full neck and the full bridge; instead of neck, both, or bridge. i've even used the blend like a tone knob. fuller, deeper=more of the neck pickup; thinner, brighter=more of the bridge pickup.
didn't put in a tone switch, most of the time i've played bass(since '72) and guitar('80-'83) i've cranked the tone and left it there. adjusted the tone on the amp.
i'll let you know how it works when i get it from the shop.
didn't put in a tone switch, most of the time i've played bass(since '72) and guitar('80-'83) i've cranked the tone and left it there. adjusted the tone on the amp.
i'll let you know how it works when i get it from the shop.
1) A trimpot is a tiny potentiometer, like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/500K-ohm-Trimmer-Potentiometer-Trim-Pot-IPLE-V-30-LOT_W0QQitemZ180270354741QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180270354741&_trkparms=72%3A552|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318
http://cgi.ebay.com/500K-ohm-Trimmer-Trim-Pot-Variable-Resistor-3106W-10_W0QQitemZ180270354757QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180270354757&_trkparms=72%3A552|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318
I've seen ones even smaller with metal parts for the screwdriver slot - maybe search that whole "potentiometer" category... I'll ask my friend where he got his. Space underneath a standard Tele control plate is really limited, so they have to be tiny. I think the Andy Summers Tele Custom Shop model had one, but Fender seems to have sold 'em all. I'd bet Keith Richards' Tele has some circuit under there to lower the humbucker's volume, but the Stones are pretty secretive about equipment stuff for some reason.
2) You absolutely can lower a humbucking pickup too much, so you'll lose all your treble and bite and your tone will turn to mush. It'd be tonier to electronically attenuate the entire signal. The problem is less acute with single coil pickups, but a humbucker in the neck is already mushy enough? :laughing7:
http://cgi.ebay.com/500K-ohm-Trimmer-Potentiometer-Trim-Pot-IPLE-V-30-LOT_W0QQitemZ180270354741QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180270354741&_trkparms=72%3A552|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318
http://cgi.ebay.com/500K-ohm-Trimmer-Trim-Pot-Variable-Resistor-3106W-10_W0QQitemZ180270354757QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180270354757&_trkparms=72%3A552|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318
I've seen ones even smaller with metal parts for the screwdriver slot - maybe search that whole "potentiometer" category... I'll ask my friend where he got his. Space underneath a standard Tele control plate is really limited, so they have to be tiny. I think the Andy Summers Tele Custom Shop model had one, but Fender seems to have sold 'em all. I'd bet Keith Richards' Tele has some circuit under there to lower the humbucker's volume, but the Stones are pretty secretive about equipment stuff for some reason.
2) You absolutely can lower a humbucking pickup too much, so you'll lose all your treble and bite and your tone will turn to mush. It'd be tonier to electronically attenuate the entire signal. The problem is less acute with single coil pickups, but a humbucker in the neck is already mushy enough? :laughing7:
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