anybody have experience adjusting their warmoth neck/ string height? help

[jrybicki]

i just got her strung and with my war pro neck and fender american trem, my string height is pretty high and lots of buzz from about 10th fret to 22..
questions
1. has a warmoth nut ever been installed to tall when recieved ?
2. the neck looks very flat to the eye, no bow?
3. ive lowered the saddles without much success, im thinking the truss needs to be adjusted, how much?
  some experienced words would be sweet to make this guitar successful! ?
thanks
joe

 

[Cagey]

1. Warmoth leaves their nuts just a tad high so you can cut them down if necessary. They're nominally cut for your average set of 10s on tall frets.

2. It's somewhere between difficult and impossible to see bow/relief on a neck unless it's so far off a child could identify it without coaching. The guys at the music stores looking down the neck and making proclamations are full of horsefeathers. There are parallax and depth of field problems that prevent your eye from discerning any problem there. You need reference tools like a known straightedge, just for starters. Past that, some feeler gauges are handy.

3. You don't want any bow to the neck. It sounds like that's what you have now, and lowering saddles certainly isn't going to improve it. Most people like between 6-10 thousandths of an inch of relief in the neck. That's done with the truss rod, but if you don't have a good way of measuring what you've done, you're better off taking it somewhere where they do. It's not a tough adjustment, but if you can't see, you can't steer.

If indeed your neck is bowed, then you need to relax the truss rod a bit to give the neck some relief. It's too tight. You do this by turning the adjusting nut/screw counter-clockwise, loosening it. It very rarely ever takes more than a 1/4 turn to do this. Any more than that, and something is probably wrong. If you lay a straightedge along the fretboard, you should have somewhere between 6-10 thousandths of clearance at the 7th-8th fret.

Once that's done, you may have to adjust your bridge saddles to get the strings back to where they belong.

I should mention that it only takes one tall fret to make many others buzz. It's possible there's nothing wrong with the truss rod adjustment at all. So, don't go adjusting things in an effort to cure a problem you're not sure exists.

 

[reluctant-builder]

I'm already wondering about setting up my neck, slated to arrive today. I assume it's going to come with the truss-rod totally slackened. Is that right?

If so, does it make sense to pre-tighten the truss rod nut to preempt the counter force of the strings? I'll be putting on a set that's .011, .014, .018, .028, .038, .050. The frets are nickel 6150s and the nut is white TUSQ, if those things help to formulate any opinions.

Thanks.

 

[Jusatele]

Have anyone of those wondering ever read a book about how to set up a neck?

here is the write up Warmoth gives on the book they sell

Description

All guitars need to be set up, from the basic one they receive at the factory to the periodic work required to maintain them in good playing condition as they experience normal wear and tear. You will find in this book not just a basic how-to guide, but also plenty of detailed discussion of the reasoning behind each step of the process. You will be able to adjust to the idiosyncrasies of any guitar that you may work on. Over 120 charts and illustrations will help you along the way to achieving that perfect sound and feel.

Some of the aspects of setup work that will be discussed in this book:

   How to properly adjust the trussrod, bridge, nut, and pickups of a guitar.
   How to eliminate buzzes and dead spots through milling of the frets and neck-angle adjustments.
   How to set the action of your guitar perfectly for your playing style.
   How to achieve good intonation and tuning through an understanding of the physics of guitar bodies and the principles of equal temperament.


   84 pages.

now,, If there is that much information about how to set up a neck, and they make special tools and measuring devices to get it done. Do you think that a 5 minute article or a simple reply on a forum will get it done? If you do not have the training and tools, I suggest you give it to a professional, it will be the best money spent on that guitar.


the reason that home built guitars have a bad reputation is 95 % of them have never been set up properly, only by the owner doing a few tweaks. Please, do yourself a favor, get the neck done professionally and do not be part of the 95 % in denial.

 

[Cagey]

I'm already wondering about setting up my neck, slated to arrive today. I assume it's going to come with the truss-rod totally slackened. Is that right?

If so, does it make sense to pre-tighten the truss rod nut to preempt the counter force of the strings? I'll be putting on a set that's .011, .014, .018, .028, .038, .050. The frets are nickel 6150s and the nut is white TUSQ, if those things help to formulate any opinions.

It won't be totally slackened, but it's highly unlikely it'll be adjusted properly for your situation. As I mentioned earlier, you really need to be able to measure where things are before you start adjusting, then again after you do any adjusting. Otherwise, you won't know if anything needs adjustment in the first place, what's happening while you adjust it or when you're done. Many setup jobs that show up in guitar stores come as the result of blind adjustment, then subsequent adjustments of other settings to compensate, which doesn't always work and is why the guitar shows up.

The tools to do it aren't terribly expensive, and will get used again. Really, for the truss rod all you need is the adjuster wrench, a good straightedge, and a set of feeler gauges. The wrench will come with the neck, you can get a good 18" straightedge from StewMac for ~$50, although you may be able to do better if you shop around a bit. Feeler gauges can be had at any automotive store for less than $10.

 

[Jusatele]

don't forget fret files and a recrown file, a set of fine sand paper for the fret edges, a set radius gauges to set the bridge, oh and specs for measurements

 

[reluctant-builder]

I actually have a book that gives detailed instructions on setting up a guitar, from truss rod adjustments to neck shims, to just about anything else I've ever heard mentioned, and with helpful pictures, too. Granted, it's not Mr. Erlewine's Holy Bible, but it's been a very useful reference for me and I have found it to be quite reliable.

That does not, though, sap my interest in understanding what works for others. I'm not afraid of knowledge -- neither am I afraid to admit my lack thereof -- and I enjoy asking for opinions and hearing about others' experiences because I believe there is always something to learn.

I don't think it's remotely productive to react to my or any other poster's inquisitiveness with negativity, nor to assume that because we ask questions that we do not also have alternative sources of information on which to rely.

 

[Strat Avenger]

I could easily show you if we were in-person, but explaining it is difficult for me, as some will "get it", while others won't.

Cagey is correct in saying that you can't really "see" neck relief. I mean, you can see if it's bowed forward, but that won't tell you how much it's bowed. 

The easiest way is to fret the low-E string at the first fret and at about the 17th at the same time. Then look at how much distance is between the bottom of that string and the top of the 8th fret. I don't just look, I also tap the string and feel how much the string travels, as well as listen for the "clicking" noise. If there's no "click" at all, the neck is either totally straight, or back-bowed (you do not want back-bow). If you can see a gap between the bottom of the string and top of the 8th fret (while fretting the 1st and 17th), and hear a "click" when tapping on it there, the neck has some forward bow. You want a tiny bit of that forward bow for minimal buzzing, however too much will cause the action to be high -- especially between the 5th and 12th frets.

Give that a try before you do anything. After that, read the books or literature suggested by the other members here to get a better understanding of what is going on.

 

[nexrex]

Here is the setup guide I use. I find it to be very detailed.

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/tutorial1.htm

 

[Alfang]

Forget taking it to a pro, read up on guitar setups and do it yourself, theres a specific sequence of steps to set up a guitar. you might have to go through the process several times to get it perfect, and each time youl learn more and get better.

Cagey likes a little forward Bow, I myself like em flat straight,  I've setup guitars with action so low i can't believe they don't buzz

 

[Cagey]

Cagey likes a little forward Bow, I myself like em flat straight,  I've setup guitars with action so low i can't believe they don't buzz

No, not "forward bow", relief. I know it's the same thing, but the industry terms are what should be used to prevent confusion. When you say "bow" to any setup guy, regardless of the qualifiers, his ass hole tightens up because it's to be avoided at all costs. Makes a neck all but unplayable, and there's a chance it may not be able to be adjusted out.

I get the necks right while flat, too. If the frets aren't good enough to pass inspection that way, then they need more attention. But, unless you're a shredder, you don't want the thing set up that way. Even without buzzes, you still have a somewhat dead neck. It'll work fine in a high-gain application where sustain is artificial and articulation is nearly non-existent, but for anything where you want good, clean, singing notes with a definable tone, you gotta have some relief so the strings can vibrate free.

 

[Jusatele]

I see the amateurs are already starting to disagree with each other


that is my point

 

[Alfang]

Cagey, Really?  Really?    You gotta be shitting me dude........................Your gonna post over relief and forward bow? any setup guy that doesn't know the difference, or the sameness is just being a prick, Find another one.

I've done setups on many guitars, and when a guy asks me for relief or forward bow I KNOW WHAT HE MEANS, and don't get all snooty about it.

And by the way, i don't set em all up super low. your right about clarity of notes and so forth, my point was you CAN get action very low if you want to

 

[Cagey]

Don't take it personally. It's a weakness on my part, not memorizing all the details of what every single member of the forum is familiar with, what jobs and experience they have, what they prefer in a guitar, how comfortable they are with the language, etc. I should probably create a database and refer to it before I say anything to anybody, lest I offend somebody's sensibilities.

Or not.

 

[jrybicki]

hey thanks for the clarity in your suggestions cage, the question was ' ANYONE HERE WITH WARMOTH NECKS HAVE OUT THE BOX ISSUES WITH THEIR NECKS" and your confidence on needing a straight edge is # 1. a check at 1st and 17th fret is also vintage advice.!
that lame grey cat in a hat was NOT  a source of help...if i wanted feedback in a guitar chat while chillin out at night, i wouldnt buy a book would i?

 

[Strat Avenger]

I get the necks right while flat, too. If the frets aren't good enough to pass inspection that way, then they need more attention. But, unless you're a shredder, you don't want the thing set up that way. Even without buzzes, you still have a somewhat dead neck. It'll work fine in a high-gain application where sustain is artificial and articulation is nearly non-existent, but for anything where you want good, clean, singing notes with a definable tone, you gotta have some relief so the strings can vibrate free.

Agree totally.

 

[Jusatele]

your welcome
Like I said the end result will be totally up to the know how,
SO
glad I could help

 

[Mor Paul]

that lame grey cat in a hat was NOT  a source of help...if i wanted feedback in a guitar chat while chillin out at night, i wouldnt buy a book would i?

Actually, there is a book, though not sold by Warmoth, that is a great read for anyone interested in setting up, building, repairing, or anything-ing to a guitar. It's called the Guitar Player's  Repair Guide, and it accompanies the forum very well.
http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Player-Repair-Guide-Erlewine/dp/0879302917
A lot of the guys here, as well as myself, recommend it to people here. A ton of good stuff in there.

Like Cagey and Alfang said, start flat, and work from there.

 

[Jusatele]

well it seems a book comes up again
Humm, the plot thickens

 

[stubhead]

My guitars are set up better than yours.