Adding a top to Warmoth body blank

[ognolman]

I've got a Warmoth Mahogany body blank and wanted to do something more to it before I cut out a bass body.  So I went to ExoticWoods.com and got two pieces of rough-cut laminate top of Black Walnut.

http://www.exoticwoods.com/product.php?productid=1374&cat=560&page=1

My plan is to cut the warmoth blank in half, plane the two billits down about 1/4", glue the Walnut laminates to the billits and then glue the two halves back together and cut a Jazz body from it.

So my question to those of you (SkuttleFunk?) that make your own bodies and necks is: does this sound like a good plan?

Thx,

JBD

 

[-CB-]

From the description, it sounds like you're going to have to uniformly plane the tops first.  It says they're 3/16-1/4 rough cut.  You're going to need at least one side smooth to laminate them.

Once you figure out how thick they'll end up, then all you need do is plane that much thickness from the top of the blank you already have, and laminate them.

Of somewhat greater concern is the width... 7 inches.  You're going to have to at least saw cut, if not join the two laminates and get that aligned with the centerline of your body.

Then... there's always... how to press them adequately.  Did I read someplace that you need 50 percent of the surface area under caul/clamp for a really good lamination?  The woods gonna be thin... so don't expect the top to "help" by just "going down" onto the body.  That is... you press it here, and its "not pressed" over there because its not all that stiff a piece of wood.

 

[SkuttleFunk]

for nicely figured woods, I'd recommend you utilize a thickness sander instead of a planer to thickness the walnut top pieces. thickness sanders won't tear out on the figuring like a planer will, and when properly used aren't subject to end snipe either

how are your bandsawing skills? I've cut 1-piece body blanks in half before with a super thin resaw blade so I could rough thickness them at the bandsaw to remove 3/4" and make room for a bookmatched top. once thicknessed, I carefully glued the untouched sawn edges into a near impossible to detect joint (the owner still swears this is a 1-piece body even after I explained how I did the work) and then thickness sanded it to tolerance.

for glue-up you're going to need a ton of clamps and a thick board (I used another body blank) for a caul to even the pressure acros the top. I'd recommend gluing the top into a single piece before gluing it to the body blank. this way you can final thickness it at the thickness sander to ensure you have a uniform gluing surface

for an idea, here's my last top glue-up at my old shop. IMO I had about half the clamps I would have liked to have - a vaccum system would have been my preference, but I didn't have the $$$ for the pump. here you can see an Ash caul (body blank on the left side) and also how I used my fingerboard caul to distribute pressure across the center of the blank

depending on how well your walnut billets match you could do each half seperately, but you will run the risk of having your two halves slip when gluing. the result is that your seam will have a 'step' to it. IMO it's less visible for a top to be off centerline than it is for the two halves to slip along the centerline - that slip misalignment will really be obvious to the eye

all the best,

R

 

[ognolman]

Thanks for the good info, guys.  I'm glad I asked before I dove into this thing.

I'm not sure if my bandsawing skills are good enough to cut that body blank and I'm really hoping I don't waste the wood.

As far as the thickness sanding goes, I saw some plans for one, but I don't have access to one, where I do have access to several planers.  If I knew of any woodworking shops around here I'd try to see if I could get someone to hook me up, but I don't.  I should look into that, though.  It would be handy, I think.

Thanks again,

JBD

 

[ognolman]

How about a Safe-T Planer?

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YWgXeVaSJw&feature=related[/youtube]

Looks pretty easy to use and it's a lot easier than having to build a thickness sander.  I did buy some thickness sander plans, but it would take a while to assemble.  Eventually I think I will do it.

Looking at my pieces of Walnut, they look pretty smoothly planed to 1/4", but the edges don't seem to be true for some reason.  They are some nice pieces of Walnut.  It would be great to find a piece of 1/16" maple to make an accent line, but I can't seem to find any.  I guess I would have to buy a piece of laminate and plane it down to 1/16"...


JBD

 

[SkuttleFunk]

do you have a Woodcraft or Rockler near you? this is a reasonable place to find veneers for projects like this ... just remember you want wood veneers that does not have a glue or paper backing

!!!!! you cannot safely or reliably make 1/16" veneer by planing or sanding. it is cut with a special saw blade and a skilled worker


I have not used a safet-t-plane on highly figured woods. YMMV depending on the wood, its moisture content, grain orientation, and the figuring. I can see how dull cutters would give you nothing but tear out on highly figured woods - something you simply won't get with the thickness sander

all the best,

R

 

[ognolman]

do you have a Woodcraft or Rockler near you?

Not that I am aware of, but I found this:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2214

36'' Dimensional Veneers, no backing, unfinished real wood, lengthwise grain, 1/40" to 1/28" thick, 6" or 10" wide.  Seems like it might be thinner than what I was planning, but I could double-up if it was too thin.  Is this what I want?

I can see how dull cutters would give you nothing but tear out on highly figured woods - something you simply won't get with the thickness sander

Yes, I was thinking the same, but StewMac includes a sharpener and you can buy replacement bits as well.

BTW, there's a whole series of videos that Ramirez made on building basses and they are very informative, if you didn't already know. 

JBD

 

[ognolman]

BTW the Stew Mac site has some very detailed instructions on using the Safe-T planer in luthiery:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Planes/1/Wagner_Safe-T-Planer/Instructions/I-0485.html#details

It discusses sharpening the bits and building a larger support table, etc.  Good stuff.

JBD

 

[SkuttleFunk]

these are one of the products to use. you could even get creative if you wanted a thicker stripe by using a walnut/maple/walnut sandwich. it's a nice detail that looks high $$$ but in reality didn't cost that much. many Woodcrafts have local hobbiests who cut veneers out of more figured woods, and you can usually snag them at great bargains

if you ever find a Rockler where you can hand pick thru the sheets you'll find that sometimes the stock has some decent figuring. I recently laminated a figured cherry veneer onto a headstock to match the body top. these thin veneers formed to the radiused headstock transition absolutely perfect!

all the best,

R

 

[ognolman]

for an idea, here's my last top glue-up at my old shop. IMO I had about half the clamps I would have liked to have - a vaccum system would have been my preference, but I didn't have the $$$ for the pump. here you can see an Ash caul (body blank on the left side) and also how I used my fingerboard caul to distribute pressure across the center of the blank

I really appreciate that photo of the glue-up.  It is very helpful.  I just went out and bought three of those big, honkin' wooden clamps like what you have in the photo.  I plan to get a few more before I start glue up.

I also got the Safe-T Planer and tried it out a little last night on some scrap wood.  So, what I think I can do now, would be to glue the walnut top directly onto the uncut body blank, then cut out the body as usual.  Then use the Safe-T Planer to plane-down the BACK of the body blank.  If the top is uneven I could use the Safe-T Planer to take off just enough to level it out.  Sound like a good plan?

I have a friend of mine that came up with an idea for using a sled to make using the Safe-T Planer a little safer-- put the body blank in a sled with a hand guard to keep me from accidentally planing my fingers...

Thanks!

JBD

 

[ognolman]

OK, made a LOT of progress on the body blank in the last few days.  I thought they had a Rockler in Greensboro NC, so the wife and I ran over only to find that it had closed.  Bummer.  So on the way home we passed a Woodworkers Supply store and I bought a piece of 10 mil 2'x2' White Oak laminate.  I've been stocking up on clamps like crazy over the past few weeks, so I was all ready to do some gluing.

I laid my body blank on the floor and cut the laminate piece to fit exactly.  Then I slathered (gotta love that word) a bunch of Tightbond II onto the blank and laid the laminate in place.  Then I slathered the laminate with Tightbond and laid the two pieces of Walnut in place.  I tacked a corner down with a finishing nail to help hold it in place while I lined up the second piece.  I squirted some extra glue in the center seam, just to be safe.

Once both were down I applied two large clamps on each end of the walnut to press the two pieces together.  All the rest of the clamps went to holding everything down.  I had gotten a couple pieces of stain-grade pine for top and bottom cauls and a 2x4 ran down the center.  I think I had about as many clamps on it as in the Skuttlefunk example.  Left it to dry for a day.

So today, I opened everything up and it seems to have worked perfectly.  I can't detect any problems in the lamination.  I cut out a Jazz body from the resulting blank and tomorrow I hope to use the Safe-T Planer to reduce the thickness from the back.

Thanks for all the help, guys!  It looks like all the tricky parts are done on this one!  I'll try to get a pic up tomorrow.

EDIT:

Pic 1:

Pic 2 shows accent line:

JBD

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

http://www.awtwood.com.au/Default.asp?p=PT&id=600

There is one of these at school, though it is made by a different company and bigger,  would one of these be sufficient for chompin' down on a slice of wood to make it level?

 

[ognolman]

http://www.awtwood.com.au/Default.asp?p=PT&id=600

There is one of these at school, though it is made by a different company and bigger,  would one of these be sufficient for chompin' down on a slice of wood to make it level?

Yes, that would work with caveats.  In my case, I would have had to cut the body blank into two pieces, because that type of planer is normally too small for the entire blank.  I saw one the other day that was 15" wide (381mm), which would have worked except it cost over $1k usd.

The other problem with planers like that is that, as mentioned earlier in this thread, they have a high probability of creating defects in the wood.

The Safe-T Planer I have shares these downsides, except that I am not limited in the size of the blank.

Thanks for the reply!

JBD

 

[SkuttleFunk]

beyond what was noted above, you also have to deal with snipe when utilizing a thickness planer. this means you'll need about 6" extra material at each end of what you'll be planing down. this makes it not a very usable tool for working on pre-cut body blanks - you're best off using this when the lumber is still in board lengths

for thicknessing body blanks, and especially when thicknessing figured woods, I suggest one of these instead

work thru the grits down to 150. if you have a lot of wood to remove, it's possible to use a rather coarse grit like 25, 30, or 40 to remove most of the material. in cases where you're removing more than 1/4", I like to trim this off at the bandsaw leaving about 3/32" of material to thickness sand away

all the best,

R

 

[Wana_make_a_guitar]

Alright then i'll check out and see what we got around town and see if I can use one.

Not that I need one for a while though.

 

[ognolman]

beyond what was noted above, you also have to deal with snipe when utilizing a thickness planer.

Yes and I hope to deal with this problem by going very slowly and planing only about 1/16" down per pass.

I hope I have the patience for it.

JBD

 

[SkuttleFunk]

speed isn't going to solve the sniping issue. snipe is caused by the mechanics of how a planer works (i.e. holding material in place against the bed and cutters), and how finely tuned you have it set-up.

I have never used a planer that didn't snipe to some extent, and each pass only increases the sniping effect.

since your body shape is already cut out of the larger stock, you'll want to utilize a thickness sander to avoid ruining it. check with a local cabinet shop that makes custom cabinets from woods that include cherry to see what they'll charge you to thickness sand your body to your preferred thickness


been there ... done that (unfortunately) .... made some cool looking firewood in the process

all the best,

R

 

[ognolman]

been there ... done that (unfortunately) .... made some cool looking firewood in the process

Haha, yeah I expect you are right.  But I should tell you that I just planed an ol Peavey T-20 bass body down 1/8" using the Safe-T Planer and it worked perfectly.  It was easy to use, my only complaint was that there was a little triangle of about 1/3"x1/3x1/3" that I couldn't reach.  It is small enough to chisel, though.  I plan to add a new top to this bass and do all new hardware and neck with no pickguard, so it made for good practice.

If it goes that well with the body blank I'll have no problem at all.

JBD

 

[ognolman]

Ok, just finished thicknessing the body blank and I just gotta say: the Safe-T Planer is the BOMB.  I had one tiny bit of snipe, but it went away with the next pass.  It took about 20 minutes and probably three passes.  It took WAY longer to vac up all the shavings and dust!  I wore my mask and am glad that I did.  HUGE sawdust.

So, I'd have to conclude that the Safe-T Planer is quite effective and inexpensive. I would have to ruin a LOT of wood to make up the cost difference between this and the $1k+ drum sander.  A pro luthier would need that kind of firepower, for sure, but for a hobbyist I think I can get by with the small stuff for now.  Eventually I will build the thickness sander from the plans I bought, but this has bought me some time for that later.

And, I noticed that ExoticWoods.com offers pre-laminated body blanks...  Kinda takes the fun out of it, though.

Thanks again for all the advice, you guys.  Esp. Skuttlefunk: You did save me from ruining this piece, just from your photo of the clamps, if nothing else.  I would have killed it right on the starting line. I am sure.

JBD

 

[ognolman]

New pics of the bass...  All the major routing and shaping is done.  Still have a couple of things like the truss rod access and controls.

The headstock sez "Flounder"

JBD