59 Roundback - I need some lead players' perspectives, please.

[Strat Avenger]

Standard-Thin with 6150s all the way, and there's no such thing as a 1-1/16" nut width on a 6-string guitar.

 

[Ace Flibble]

As for the thumb-over technique... have you ever seen a classical guitarist use their thumb to fret? There's a reason they don't care about that ability. You're not supposed to do it. It's a technique reserved for the punkers and metal players who think it looks cools to hang their guitars down around their knees and so can't fret properly because they lack simian body proportions.

Hendrix, SRV, Clapton, Richie Sambora, Carlos Santana, Joe Perry, John Frusciante and Prince would all like a word with you. If anything, it's metal that shuns thumb-over playing.

 

[fdesalvo]

Ding!Ding!  Pretty sure I forgot a 1*.  :doh:

Standard-Thin with 6150s all the way, and there's no such thing as a 1-1/16" nut width on a 6-string guitar.

 

[Cagey]

Hendrix, SRV, Clapton, Richie Sambora, Carlos Santana, Joe Perry, John Frusciante and Prince would all like a word with you. If anything, it's metal that shuns thumb-over playing.

A lot of people would like to have a word with me. I'm a popular guy with many profound insights <grin>

But, enough about me. Let's talk about you and your misguided attempt to justify poor behavior by citing examples of those who engage in it. You can find examples of rule-breakers in any field of endeavor. Look at John Dillinger, Charles Manson, Saddam Hussein or Barry Obama. They're all quite famous. Does that make what they've done or intend to do a proper or acceptable example for the rest of us, worthy of emulation? I don't think so. But, that's just me. Your mileage may vary.

 

[stubhead]

The thumbover is to provide leverage for bending strings, and to be able to put a vibrato on an already-bent string. There's no other way to do that - I tend to play with my thumb in the back of the neck as a default position, and you can access both types of vibrato on a note, but once you bend it - the geometry changes. Go up and down the neck playing scales and bending in to each note, a half-step or a whole-step. Without leverage?

The reason the Wizard necks are popular for shredding is another physical thing. Hold your left hand with the fingers and thumb pointing at your face. Hold the tip of your thumb and the tip of your middle finger together, and try to widen the gap among your fingers. Now, pull your thumb and middle finger apart and watch how your other fingers can spread out. The way a Wizard kind of profile works is by keeping your thumb in the back, but point your thumb straight down toward the headstock. Your fingers actually spread more the further they are from your thumb.

There's a style of playing with quick bends interspersed with fingerings that doesn't work on a Wizard, it becomes kind of an either/or choice. Duane Allman, Jerry Garcia, and the old-school rockers could play this way, the country guys are still great at it, but I don't think you could play Allman's solos on "Stormy Monday" or "Little Wing" on a Wizard, I sure couldn't at least.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLPHz8KT9No

 

[Ace Flibble]

I'm sorry, are you... are you actually trying to equate the electric guitar playing techniques of Eric Clapton to the multiple racially-motivated murders and other hate crimes perpetrated and arranged by Charles Manson?

That may well be the most horrifically flippant and downright digusting thing I've ever read.

 

[Cagey]

Don't be silly. Read the post again.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

The reason the Wizard necks are popular for shredding is another physical thing. Hold your left hand with the fingers and thumb pointing at your face. Hold the tip of your thumb and the tip of your middle finger together, and try to widen the gap among your fingers. Now, pull your thumb and middle finger apart and watch how your other fingers can spread out. The way a Wizard kind of profile works is by keeping your thumb in the back, but point your thumb straight down toward the headstock. Your fingers actually spread more the further they are from your thumb.

There's a style of playing with quick bends interspersed with fingerings that doesn't work on a Wizard, it becomes kind of an either/or choice. Duane Allman, Jerry Garcia, and the old-school rockers could play this way, the country guys are still great at it, but I don't think you could play Allman's solos on "Stormy Monday" or "Little Wing" on a Wizard, I sure couldn't at least.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLPHz8KT9No

A lot of truth to that, but I would also add, that with some repetition, one may be able to do the same on a larger neck like the '59.  Again, giving your hand the time to make a gradual transition will help to avoid injury.  As far as anyone playing Allman's solo's on a Wizard, I would still defer to "subjectivity" on that point.

 

[tfarny]

OP: The PRS wide fat 1 11/16 necks are identical in feel (to me) to the '59. play one if you're not sure.

 

[fdesalvo]

Don't be silly. Read the post again.

Bahahahahah!  So when one-a-them low-brow, knuckle-dragging thumb-hookers shows up at your door with a bloody axe, you won't be shocked!

 

[fdesalvo]

OP: The PRS wide fat 1 11/16 necks are identical in feel (to me) to the '59. play one if you're not sure.

...annnnd the thread is back on track, completing the typical "What does the **** profile feel like?" thread lifecycle with the ever effective thread-killer, "Go play one."

Seriously thigh, I know what you mean and it's the only real way to know, though it's fun to sit around speculating.  Ive read on one to he Gibbo boards that the PRS WF is almost identical in feel to Gibbo's 50s style carve.  If that's the case, then I'll hate it and be left pining for the 60's Slim Taper feel, as many others have expressed. 

Thanks, all.

 

[Wyliee]

I've been reluctant to comment on the thread since I hardly consider myself a lead player of any caliber, but my #1 guitar has the 59 profile on it.  I like it.  My previous #1 had an SRV contour and I've decided I like the symmetry of the 59 a little better.  It's not too thick and not too thin.

 

[tfarny]

OP: The PRS wide fat 1 11/16 necks are identical in feel (to me) to the '59. play one if you're not sure.

...annnnd the thread is back on track, completing the typical "What does the **** profile feel like?" thread lifecycle with the ever effective thread-killer, "Go play one."

Seriously thigh, I know what you mean and it's the only real way to know, though it's fun to sit around speculating.  Ive read on one to he Gibbo boards that the PRS WF is almost identical in feel to Gibbo's 50s style carve.  If that's the case, then I'll hate it and be left pining for the 60's Slim Taper feel, as many others have expressed. 

Thanks, all.

Sounds like standard thin is your best bet - very very similar to the current Fender American standard / deluxe strat necks.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I'm not sure what the specs on my 2003 Jackson USA's KV2 "Speed Neck" are, but damned would I like to know.  I want this neck on my next W build.  I want a neck as close as possible to this neck.

I love my Wizard neck on my current W but damn, this Jackson neck just feels sooooooo good!  :binkybaby:

 

[Strat Avenger]

I'm not sure what the specs on my 2003 Jackson USA's KV2 "Speed Neck" are, but damned would I like to know.  I want this neck on my next W build.  I want a neck as close as possible to this neck.

I love my Wizard neck on my current W but damn, this Jackson neck just feels sooooooo good!  :binkybaby:

Get some calipers and measure it at the 1st fret and the 12th fret.

 

[Cagey]

Thickness isn't everything. There's "profile" as well. A "U" shaped neck can be the same thickness at the 1st and 12th fret as a "C" or "D" shaped neck, but they'll feel dramatically different. For those who haven't seen it, Warmoth has a page where they show the relationship between profiles that they offer. As you look through those, you'll notice there are examples where the dimensions change very little, but the cross-sectional shape (profile) does.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Thickness isn't everything. There's "profile" as well. A "U" shaped neck can be the same thickness at the 1st and 12th fret as a "C" or "D" shaped neck, but they'll feel dramatically different. For those who haven't seen it, Warmoth has a page where they show the relationship between profiles that they offer. As you look through those, you'll notice there are examples where the dimensions change very little, but the cross-sectional shape (profile) does.

Admittedly, the back of the neck is probably more important to me than any other factor.  The neck on the back of my Jackson KV2 is very round.  I have a Jackson Warrior and the neck is wide, and it doesn't have as much curve in the rear as the KV2 does.  It feels okay but I like the beefier feel of the KV2's neck.  Even though the KV2's neck is not as wide, it feels beefier.  I'm assuming it's a "C-Shaped" neck on the KV2 and a "D-Shape" on the Warrior?

 

[Cagey]

I don't know. The differences can be quite subtle, and I'm reminded of the <ahem> "guys" at the paint store who can argue endlessly about the difference in shade between fuscia and fandango when they're picking out accent colors for their bathroom trim molding.

 

[riverbluff]

I picked the 59 roundback for my first Warmoth build based on the recommendations to the folks here on the board.  I was building a LP and wanted a neck similar to my Gibson LP (made in 1985/1985).  The 59 roundback was nigh on a perfect match.  Since then I have built several guitars with the standard thin and boatnect profiles and the 59 roundback is still my #1 choice.

Bill

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I picked the 59 roundback for my first Warmoth build based on the recommendations to the folks here on the board.  I was building a LP and wanted a neck similar to my Gibson LP (made in 1985/1985).  The 59 roundback was nigh on a perfect match.  Since then I have built several guitars with the standard thin and boatnect profiles and the 59 roundback is still my #1 choice.

Bill

Just based upon the sketches on W's site, the '59RB looks like it would be the great choice for myself also, but I'm just apprehensive about it, as with any of the necks, because it's a chance.  While I like my Wizard neck, I do find myself wishing for something a little bit beefier or more "substantial."