59 Roundback - I need some lead players' perspectives, please.

[fdesalvo]

Hello there -

I'm considering the 59 as my next profile and I'm primarily a lead player.  This will be my 4th Warmoth neck.  Here's what I've had in the past and my experiences with each.  For reference,  my hand from bottom of palm to tip of middle finger is 7.5", with the length of the middle finger and palm being about equal.

1. Wizard/12"/6130/1-1/16":
*A real ripper on the GBE strings, but a cramper with chording - and single string runs on the lower 3 really imparts a blocky and obstructive feel to the fretboard. 

*Loved string bends with this one.  12" radius gave me a pleasing sense of a little curve to the board, though a bit tough to get under the strings due to short frets. 

*Only shoulders contact the palm for most of my playing, with the thumb at the back for some positions.  Web of thumb only contacts at nut and near end of board.

2. Fatback/12"/6105/1-1/16":
*Better with chording, leads took a hit due to obstructive contour; too much wood on the lower contour of the neck - fingers can't get out of the way of the treble side shoulder.  Removed 1/16" - 1/8" off the neck and recontoured with slight asymmetry, tapering the lower half a-la Wolfgang.  Still an unwieldy beast.  Fatigue inducing for every style, though chording is slightly easier than the Wizard.

*100% contact with palm in every position.

3. Wolfgang/Compound/6150/1-3/4":
*What the hell was I thinking with this nut width?  Damn enjoyable for solos; plenty of room for vibrato and bends, but the fretboard itself feels too wide.  Bad idea.  Glad I tried, however. 

*Bingo on the fret size - going for SS next time.

*This radius is not too shabby even with the TOM.  Sort of miss the slight curve for bends on the upper frets, though. 

*I still can't hang my thumb off the fretboard - it could be the nut width and it could be the large shoulder of the Wolfgang.  I think it's more the latter.  100% contact with palm in every position.

So, this brings me to the 59...the thought of it is both appealing, yet appalling to me simultaneously.  It's appealing because it not the Wizard, Fatback, or Wolfgang.  It appalling because I hate the Gibson 50s profile, but it doesn't seem a carbon copy.  My friend's SG is a thumb-cramper for chords.  Sweet mercy.

I'm looking for  a little more beef with the ability to throw my thumb over the fretboard when I need to.  Can any of you lead players out there comment on the 59 or make another suggestion? 

Thanks!

Frank

 

[Cagey]

If it's not a 1 11/16" wide Standard Thin with SS or gold frets on a compound radius, IT'S CRAP!

 

[Johnfv]

I've bought mostly standard thin but my most recent neck was 59 roundback. The difference is more subtle than you might think. I may try fatback next...

 

[AutoBat]

I've currently got a 59/Compound/SS6105/1 11/16" it's absolutely wonderful in chording & soloing.
In a couple weeks I may give some comparison to an SRV/Comp/SS6150/1 11/16"
Otherwise I've only had OEM Yamaha & MIM Fender necks.  The Yamaha was a bit thinner than I'd like. The MIM was okay but not fantastic.  I can't really fault it on anything per se, just better than the Yamaha.

 

[fdesalvo]

Thanks for the opinions so far. 

This is what I believe I'm seeing as you work your way up in size.  Thing with me is I jumped to the opposite end of the spectrum. 

I've bought mostly standard thin but my most recent neck was 59 roundback. The difference is more subtle than you might think. I may try fatback next...

 

[Patrick from Davis]

My standard thin necks are very close to my 80's contemporary Strat, which is what I learned most things on.  So I am very at home with that style of neck.  The '59 is more of a Gibson feel to it, but it is an easy neck for me to play as well.  I don't do well on Ibanez necks, or boat shaped/Vee'd necks.  My hands cramp rather quickly, and I start looking for something else to play.  My hands are a touch larger than yours, but it is the palm that is bigger.  I don't play much lead anymore after my first finger on my fingering hand had surgery, and the knuckles don't move like they used to.  However, the overall comfort of those two necks is quite good for me.  The 59 is becoming my favorite, but I'd probably play faster on the standard thin.
Patrick

 

[swarfrat]

I believe neck fatness has a lot more to do with your finger length than speed or playing style. If you have super long fingers you're likely going to find a fatter neck more comfortable. I like my fatback, although it did throw me a bit - not because of the dimensions, but because of the lack of taper. I'm getting used to it quickly though.

 

[Johnfv]

I believe neck fatness has a lot more to do with your finger length...

Neck width also, the 59 roundback I just got is 1 5/8". I like a fat neck but my hands are not that big...

 

[Cagey]

I believe neck fatness has a lot more to do with your finger length than speed or playing style. If you have super long fingers you're likely going to find a fatter neck more comfortable. I like my fatback, although it did throw me a bit - not because of the dimensions, but because of the lack of taper. I'm getting used to it quickly though.

I used to think the same thing, but I'm not sure if that's true. I mean, if you look at the dimensions of various necks, you see that the extremes are only maybe .100" to .125" or so apart, which is only 1/10 to 1/8 of an inch. Most of them are much less than that. I know it feels like a helluva lot more, but it's not.

So, I think it's more a matter of what you get used to, because your tactile sense is apparently capable of sensing some pretty small changes, which affects your muscle memory. I know myself, you hand me a guitar that has a neck that's only 1/16" (.062") wider and 1/16" (.062") thicker than what I'm used to, and I'm lost. Can't play the damned thing. Feels like a baseball bat. But, that's all the difference there is between a Standard Thin with a 1 11/16" nut and a '59 Roundback with a 1 3/4" nut.

I know people have different length fingers, but I find it difficult to believe that 1/8" or less of difference in neck dimension is a make or break deal as far as reach is concerned.

 

[duosonic]

I roll with a standard thin and 1-5/8" nut.  It's just easier on the hands for me.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Been a Wizard player on a 1 5/8" nut width for 20+ years, am now leaning towards the '59. 
As said before, the difference is subtle, and I think those are the best changes to make.  From there, after your hands get used to working on the slightly larger profile, then you can increase mass by building another with a Fat, '59, or other.
This will avoid injury to your hand, and when you finally get to the point where you are completely at home on a Fat, then you have a reason to sell the old necks & get new ones for your older builds, perhaps trying an exotic wood.

During the short time I was working at Warmoth, there was something the staff did which was called "De-Fragging".
It's and inventory task that just means that you go through the Neck Showcase & move necks over & fill in the gaps where necks have been sold, so at the end of the line you have room for the new necks that are hitting the showcase. 

The big benefit as a player in doing this is that you're exposed by feel to hundreds of necks several times a week and in doing so, your hands begin to tell the difference between a Standard Thin, SRV, Wolfgang, Fatback, Boatneck, Clapton, '59, & Wizard just by picking them up and moving them.  Doing this over and over again, I was fortunate to have a greater sensitivity to how subtle or drastic of a change in contour can have on your ergonomics & comfort.

Rob (Sales Manager) also gave me some very helpful councel in telling me that when you hand hangs at your side completely limp, your hand relaxes in a position that isn't closed up so much, it's a little more open.  This represents the center of your range of motion.  It can flex to close the fist, it can flex to open it up.  That amount of space can benefit by having the majority of it filled.  So, I started experimenting with that, then hold up my relaxed hand and slip a neck into it.  I found that it actually takes more energy & effort to close up on a Wizard neck than to relax more on the Standard Thins, SRV's, & '59'S.  The Fat & Boat are just too much for me.

Now that I've been playing my Baritone Tele with the Standard Thin & 1 11/16" nut width, I find this to be totally a correct assessment.  When I go back to play the smaller necks, sure I can shred like the dickens for a few moments, but my hands are not as relaxed and therefore don't have the stamina to continue for longer periods of time.  I can play my baritone all day long, completly relaxed.

So, I would strongly recommend going to your local shop over several months period of time to really familiarize yourself with different back contours, take notes, play licks from your entire vocabulary, and then you'll have a much more practical perspective that will aid your purchase decision.

When I was younger and had smaller hands, a Wizard made perfect sense, not so much now, but that's just me.

I'll be purchasing '59's for my 6'er's for now on, and increasing my nut width from 1 5/8" to 1 11/16".  I play my acoustic at least 3-5 hours a week, and transitioning to 1 11/16" nut widths will make it consistent across the board.  The back contour on my acoustic is very similar to the '59, so that also helps.

 

[fdesalvo]

TFS - I've been waiting for you to weigh in, brothah.  Defragging - haha that makes perfect sense in the IT world  :laughing7:.

It seems like the difference between the Wizard and Standard Thin is very subtle, but like you and a few others mentioned, a 10th of an inch can change the feel and playability of the neck.  I seem to be leaning towards the Standard Thin at the moment.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

If moving from a Wizard, I would transition to Standard Thin next, then to the '59.
Just my opinion.

 

[fdesalvo]

Makes perfect sense to me.  I'm on a 1-3/4" Wolfgang currently.  Eyeballing the ST and 59s.

If moving from a Wizard, I would transition to Standard Thin next, then to the '59.
Just my opinion.

 

[MikeW]

Rob (Sales Manager) also gave me some very helpful councel in telling me that when you hand hangs at your side completely limp, your hand relaxes in a position that isn't closed up so much, it's a little more open.  This represents the center of your range of motion.  It can flex to close the fist, it can flex to open it up.  That amount of space can benefit by having the majority of it filled.  So, I started experimenting with that, then hold up my relaxed hand and slip a neck into it. 

Strangely enough, my fingers are long enough that when I do this I wind up more comfortable on a Wizard profile just because there's so little gap between my fingertips and my palm/thumb. So I've always been more comfortable on the thinner necks because of that.

Just my 2c, but I would be go Standard Thin/SS6150 or 6105/Compound/1-11/16 ths.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Considering the Thumb-Over, you may also opt for the Wolfgang or the SRV, the Wolfie being the smaller of the two.

 

[fdesalvo]

Beleive it or not, I'm having trouble with that with my current (Wolfie/1-3/4").  It's probably due to the nut width.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Beleive it or not, I'm having trouble with that with my current (Wolfie/1-3/4").  It's probably due to the nut width.

I'm convinced that 1 3/4" nut widths are for the very few exceptions of people out there with very large hands.

Ever try playing the thumb over on a classical guitar?  There's a reason why it's hard to.

I think the 1 11/16" is the sweet spot.

 

[Cagey]

Ever try playing the thumb over on a classical guitar?  There's a reason why it's hard to. I think the 1 11/16" is the sweet spot.

I agree on the 1 11/16" width.

As for the thumb-over technique... have you ever seen a classical guitarist use their thumb to fret? There's a reason they don't care about that ability. You're not supposed to do it. It's a technique reserved for the punkers and metal players who think it looks cools to hang their guitars down around their knees and so can't fret properly because they lack simian body proportions.

Lead guitarist for "Phillips Head Death Driver"​

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

Ever try playing the thumb over on a classical guitar?  There's a reason why it's hard to. I think the 1 11/16" is the sweet spot.

I agree on the 1 11/16" width.

As for the thumb-over technique... have you ever seen a classical guitarist use their thumb to fret? There's a reason they don't care about that ability. You're not supposed to do it. It's a technique reserved for the punkers and metal players who think it looks cools to hang their guitars down around their knees and so can't fret properly because they lack simian body proportions.

Lead guitarist for "Phillips Head Death Driver"​

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