Who needs string tees?
- Thread starter rockskate4x
- Start date
I don't use string trees
The only reason to use them is to keep the strings in the nut slots. if you can get away without them, don't use em.
It's easier to keep in tune without them as theres less friction between the nut and tuners.
Leo put them on just as insurance against a sloppy or worn nut, not because he's a genius, which of course he is
The only reason to use them is to keep the strings in the nut slots. if you can get away without them, don't use em.
It's easier to keep in tune without them as theres less friction between the nut and tuners.
Leo put them on just as insurance against a sloppy or worn nut, not because he's a genius, which of course he is
buckallred
Junior Member
- Messages
- 177
I had a luthier assemble my Warmoth strat, he is a local legend in this area who is Fender-licensed, etc.
He said no string trees were necessary. I had the staggered tuners. The tone is great. Stays in tune. I suspect he spent a lot of time on getting the nut slots just right.
At any rate, it is a fantastic strat whose quality and beauty FAR exceeds my ability to play it.
He said no string trees were necessary. I had the staggered tuners. The tone is great. Stays in tune. I suspect he spent a lot of time on getting the nut slots just right.
At any rate, it is a fantastic strat whose quality and beauty FAR exceeds my ability to play it.
I don't use one.
A tip from Bill Lawrence (who recommends not to use them if you can) is to leave the string extra long and put many windings around the post working downward.
This way the string comes off the bottom end of the post and might make a string tree unnecessary.
A tip from Bill Lawrence (who recommends not to use them if you can) is to leave the string extra long and put many windings around the post working downward.
This way the string comes off the bottom end of the post and might make a string tree unnecessary.
Superlizard
Hero Member
- Messages
- 2,514
Alfang said:
Precisely. As long as the angle over the nut is good, you don't need 'em.
The nut slots should be deep enough (not overly deep) to keep the strings in place (whenst whammying) as well.
G
guitlouie
Guest
Two Warmoths, no string trees, no problem. The guy that I trust with my final set-up, said on both accounts, "see how it does, if you need them let me know, I'll install for no charge if you want." No need.
Ive assembled alot of guittars and the only ones that may not need string trees are the angled headstocks, bbut it helps to have starggred tuners even with them. All others of my guitars DO need string trees even with steggred tuners or thhey will ping or thud.
rockskate4x
Hero Member
- Messages
- 1,601
I think I've figured out the best case scenario for having a straight headstock and no string tees after listening to you guys and doing some more digging of my own.
If I order a neck with the biggest jumbo frets that I can find, this will require the precut nut have taller slots, therefore making the string angle more favorable. I should of course use the staggered tuners. Tighter string tension will also reduce the need for tees, correct? I already use size 11's most of the time, so I think I'm in good shape there...
I'm sold on the side adjustment for warmoth pro trussrods, but I'm also sold on angled pegheads, for those of you who were baffled by my motives for wanting no tees on a straight peghead neck...
I think the most awesome neck would be some sort of no finish necessary reversed CBS angled peghead with a side adjustment for the trussrod. Heck, should I make a suggestion post?
If I order a neck with the biggest jumbo frets that I can find, this will require the precut nut have taller slots, therefore making the string angle more favorable. I should of course use the staggered tuners. Tighter string tension will also reduce the need for tees, correct? I already use size 11's most of the time, so I think I'm in good shape there...
I'm sold on the side adjustment for warmoth pro trussrods, but I'm also sold on angled pegheads, for those of you who were baffled by my motives for wanting no tees on a straight peghead neck...
I think the most awesome neck would be some sort of no finish necessary reversed CBS angled peghead with a side adjustment for the trussrod. Heck, should I make a suggestion post?
If you've got an angled peghead, the adjustment is at the top - why would you want a side-adjuster? That gizmo is designed to make adjustment easier on Pro necks with bottom adjustment, which only need to be adjusted every few years anyway.... Warmoth maybe could do a reverse CBS peghead, all you have to do is rob a bank before you ask them. :toothy12:
Sheesh man, don't choose your frets in order to have no string trees! That's ridiculous. Fret size is really a personal thing, you should get the size that you like the best. Besides, the difference between the smallest and highest fret is a tiny amount that will not end up affecting the break angle behind the nut significantly.
\I'm 100% sure from your description that your issue with string trees is caused by either 1) a bad string tree, which you should replace at a cost of $3 and five minutes of work (replace with a barrel or roller type, maybe put a little bit of graphite under it just to be extra sure) OR 2) your nut is cut too tight, which is causing all of your tuning issues and the pinging you hear. Just take your strings off of the tree and play for a while to make sure it's the tree and not the nut. String trees may or may not be necessary, which is what this thread turned into, but they are definitely not the major problem that you seem to believe.
Nearly all tuning problems are caused by the nut. Strings should lie at the bottom of a groove in the nut, being held in there by downward pressure from behind the nut, exactly the same as happens on the bridge. They should not be held in place by the sides of the nut slot - that causes tuning issues. String trees just ensure that the break angle is sufficient to get that downward force - without a string tree, you might or might not have enough angle to need it. An angled peghead guarantees plenty of break angle, which is why all acoustics and Gibsons, as well as banjos, mandolins, violins, etc. etc. , has an angled peghead. Fender's straight head was an economy measure, and the string tree is a cheap and dirty way to fix an engineering problem that resulted.
In other words, stubhead is right.
\I'm 100% sure from your description that your issue with string trees is caused by either 1) a bad string tree, which you should replace at a cost of $3 and five minutes of work (replace with a barrel or roller type, maybe put a little bit of graphite under it just to be extra sure) OR 2) your nut is cut too tight, which is causing all of your tuning issues and the pinging you hear. Just take your strings off of the tree and play for a while to make sure it's the tree and not the nut. String trees may or may not be necessary, which is what this thread turned into, but they are definitely not the major problem that you seem to believe.
Nearly all tuning problems are caused by the nut. Strings should lie at the bottom of a groove in the nut, being held in there by downward pressure from behind the nut, exactly the same as happens on the bridge. They should not be held in place by the sides of the nut slot - that causes tuning issues. String trees just ensure that the break angle is sufficient to get that downward force - without a string tree, you might or might not have enough angle to need it. An angled peghead guarantees plenty of break angle, which is why all acoustics and Gibsons, as well as banjos, mandolins, violins, etc. etc. , has an angled peghead. Fender's straight head was an economy measure, and the string tree is a cheap and dirty way to fix an engineering problem that resulted.
In other words, stubhead is right.
Another possible thing about string trees.. I have a feeling they must really be tight if they are the convetional type. I think soem issues with my guitars going flat on the tune is cause of a loose tree turning.
Actually, on one of my assembly from other mongrel parts, I have a guitar where the two lowest strings will buzzz ( I like my action low as can be) alot more than average. I am actually going to put a string tree on those two strings so thats all the strings will be string treed. I coulve/shouldve mabe used a string tree bar, but they look worse thhan three trees imo on a regular Strat.
Actually, on one of my assembly from other mongrel parts, I have a guitar where the two lowest strings will buzzz ( I like my action low as can be) alot more than average. I am actually going to put a string tree on those two strings so thats all the strings will be string treed. I coulve/shouldve mabe used a string tree bar, but they look worse thhan three trees imo on a regular Strat.
rockskate4x
Hero Member
- Messages
- 1,601
Would a reversed peghead help? I think if the high strings had the greater angle there may be some improvement... What do you guys think?
You don't really have a problem here yet, right? This is all hypothetical for an upcoming build? :icon_scratch: That's fine - it's good to ask questions, and obsessive/compulsives undoubtedly build the best guitars* - but I do pay attention to what seems to work best for a huge number of people, and it's the basic, regular, ordinary,
straight peghead - good tuners - good nut - single tree...
I never drill the peghead for the tree till I've proven that I need it, but so far (10+), on a straight peghead I always do.
*( :hello2
straight peghead - good tuners - good nut - single tree...
I never drill the peghead for the tree till I've proven that I need it, but so far (10+), on a straight peghead I always do.
*( :hello2
I guess you can avoid string trees if u use an older version of Wilkinson Roller Nut (one with angled slots on lower strings). I played guitar with a nut like that and had no problems with sustain or diving/vibrato harmonics - it did not have string trees. I'm still in search for that nut - very rare. Or just go for 3+3 peghead :icon_biggrin:
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom
Epic Member
- Messages
- 8,318
kykah said:
The LSRs on the Jeff Beck models were different than the Strat Ultras where the roller nut first appeared. The Beck model has the angled slots.
I'm a little late to the rally, but for what it's worth I've gone through about a dozen strats and/or teles over the years, and I've used Sperzel's on all of them. No string tree was ever needed on any of them.
String trees seem to change the tension of the string when bending. I just prefer bending with no string trees - and I bend A LOT.
Note: I should disclaim that my string gauges have always been 11 - 49 (tuned "standard"). Results may differ on skinnier strings.
On the heavier strings, I've noticed that they resist buzzing/rattling & other problems better then skinnier strings do. They let me set my action lower, neck relief straighter, and nut slots deeper. I mean, this is compared to the same guitar & setup measurements using skinnier strings
String trees seem to change the tension of the string when bending. I just prefer bending with no string trees - and I bend A LOT.
Note: I should disclaim that my string gauges have always been 11 - 49 (tuned "standard"). Results may differ on skinnier strings.
On the heavier strings, I've noticed that they resist buzzing/rattling & other problems better then skinnier strings do. They let me set my action lower, neck relief straighter, and nut slots deeper. I mean, this is compared to the same guitar & setup measurements using skinnier strings
whitebison66
Hero Member
- Messages
- 777
Maybe someone here can answer this (pertinent for a change) question:
There's a reference in Dan Erlewine's "Guitar Player Repair Guide" to a product supposedly made by Wilkinson. It's a 6" machined aluminum wedge that you install on the rear side of the guitar headstock between the tuners and wood such that it graduates the height of the tuners. This eliminates the need for string trees.
Except I can't find any information about it or pictures or... nothin'. I'm just kind of interested in seeing if the Wilkinson Wedge really exists!
After I posted this earlier, I remembered that I had some brass strapping (?) around. 1/16 (1.5mm) thick, 1" wide.
Let's see...
E and A don't need trees.
D and G sometimes do... cut a piece of brass and drill four 10.5mm holes (a little slop never hurt nobody, 'specially on a Saturday night).
B and E are the real culprits. Cut another piece of brass, drill two holes in it.
Speaking of the B and E strings, I had to lose the original washers on the tuners (too thick) and go with washers from input jacks.
I'm not sure about how I'm going to drill the set screws just yet... :icon_scratch:
But I have 4-8 weeks to wait on the pickups for this guitar (I ordered another one), so I ought to be able to finger it out in that time period.
At this juncture, at least, I'm proud of me... which is usually the sign of a coming apocalypse. :sad1:
There's a reference in Dan Erlewine's "Guitar Player Repair Guide" to a product supposedly made by Wilkinson. It's a 6" machined aluminum wedge that you install on the rear side of the guitar headstock between the tuners and wood such that it graduates the height of the tuners. This eliminates the need for string trees.
Except I can't find any information about it or pictures or... nothin'. I'm just kind of interested in seeing if the Wilkinson Wedge really exists!
After I posted this earlier, I remembered that I had some brass strapping (?) around. 1/16 (1.5mm) thick, 1" wide.
Let's see...
E and A don't need trees.
D and G sometimes do... cut a piece of brass and drill four 10.5mm holes (a little slop never hurt nobody, 'specially on a Saturday night).
B and E are the real culprits. Cut another piece of brass, drill two holes in it.
Speaking of the B and E strings, I had to lose the original washers on the tuners (too thick) and go with washers from input jacks.
I'm not sure about how I'm going to drill the set screws just yet... :icon_scratch:
But I have 4-8 weeks to wait on the pickups for this guitar (I ordered another one), so I ought to be able to finger it out in that time period.
At this juncture, at least, I'm proud of me... which is usually the sign of a coming apocalypse. :sad1:
