Who are the Super Switch wiring diagram gurus? What coils are these when split?

[ChrisMC]

Hi everyone....the preparation part of this build that has been the most time consuming, by FAR, is TRYING to decide (key word there is trying...) how I'm going to wire my HH Soloist.  I still haven't decided, and it's driving me crazy.

I did come across this diagram and this wiring option is in the running, but it doesn't tell me which coils are active when split.  What I want (and won't settle for the opposite option) is the outer coils active when split (south coil on the bridge). 

Does anyone know these Super Switch wiring diagrams well enough to know if that's the case, or if it's giving the inner coils with the splits? 

These are, of course...Dimarzio wire color codes....red is hot.

ALSO, for clarity - as far as I understand it (I've been looking at a lot of these on Dimarzio's site)...the 5 switch positions listed, are WITHOUT the DPDT push/pull engaged and splitting the coils.  In other words, you still get those 5 positions when the push/pull is NOT engaged.  Engaging the push/pull will split the bridge and neck, mostly useful for positions 1 and 5 on the switch in this case. If I'm wrong on that, and you ONLY get the splits on positions 2 and 4 WHEN the push/pull is engaged, then...I won't be using this wiring, as there are other similar Super Switch wiring options, that don't require the use of a DPDT to get you at least one of the two positions 2 or 4. 

Thank you.

 

[Rick]

There’s a freeway toggle switch that will get you there.

 

[ChrisMC]

There’s a freeway toggle switch that will get you there.

:icon_thumright: I have it. I’m not sure if I like how it feels though. I’m still considering it (like I said...I’m having a heckuva time deciding which way to go with wiring this new guitar up!). Some of the 10 Freeway positions, I don’t think I’d use often if at all, but I bought one (thanks again!), and it’s an option...but if this wiring is what I think it is, I think I’d be happy with that.

Either way, I’d need to figure out how to wire a blower switch into whatever I end up deciding.

 

[Rick]

Thinking about switching diagrams is such a wonderful thing to ponder. 

 

[stratamania]

I did come across this diagram and this wiring option is in the running, but it doesn't tell me which coils are active when split.  What I want (and won't settle for the opposite option) is the outer coils active when split (south coil on the bridge). 

Does anyone know these Super Switch wiring diagrams well enough to know if that's the case, or if it's giving the inner coils with the splits? 



These are, of course...Dimarzio wire color codes....red is hot.

ALSO, for clarity - as far as I understand it (I've been looking at a lot of these on Dimarzio's site)...the 5 switch positions listed, are WITHOUT the DPDT push/pull engaged and splitting the coils.  In other words, you still get those 5 positions when the push/pull is NOT engaged.  Engaging the push/pull will split the bridge and neck, mostly useful for positions 1 and 5 on the switch in this case. If I'm wrong on that, and you ONLY get the splits on positions 2 and 4 WHEN the push/pull is engaged, then...I won't be using this wiring, as there are other similar Super Switch wiring options, that don't require the use of a DPDT to get you at least one of the two positions 2 or 4. 

Thank you.

The diagram shows the wires that take the black and white series wires for both the bridge and neck of the commons of the respective poles of the push pull switch which only activates in positions 1 and 5 of the super switch. The diagram does show visually what will happen when the push pull is engaged it will split to the outside coils and only when in positions 1 and 5.

Positions 1 to 5 on the selector switch are as listed as when the push pull is not activated. Positions 2,3,4 will remain the same if the push pull is activated.

Exam question just for fun for those who want to work it out - why does it give you the inside coils in position 4?

And Larry DiMarzio, stay off the double cream you have positions numbering 1 - 5 backwards  :laughing7:

 

[ChrisMC]

The diagram shows the wires that take the black and white series wires for both the bridge and neck of the commons of the respective poles of the push pull switch which only activates in positions 1 and 5 of the super switch. The diagram does show visually what will happen when the push pull is engaged it will split to the outside coils and only when in positions 1 and 5.

OUTSIDE coils! We may have a winner here. Thank you!

Positions 1 to 5 on the selector switch are listed as when the push pull is not activated. Positions 2,3,4 will remain the same if the push pull is activated.

Okay, I was correct on that. Thank you again.

Exam question just for fun for those who want to work it out - why does it give you the inside coils in position 4?

I understand the basic premise of how a super switch works...but I have no idea why it’s the inside coils in #4. I’m curious though.

And Larry DiMarzio, stay off the double cream you have positions numbering 1 - 5 backwards  :laughing7:

Yeah...there are a LOT of diagrams out there that have them numbered that way, and yes, it’s goofy because everyone I know calls the full bridge pickup Position 1.

Now about that blower switch...I have your diagram (thank you!), but don’t know if anything changes by adding a coil split on a DPDT (I won’t use a push/pull, I’d use a mini toggle on/on), with this particular wiring. ?

 

[stratamania]

I understand the basic premise of how a super switch works...but I have no idea why it’s the inside coils in #4. I’m curious though.

See if you can puzzle it out...the clue is what gets shunted where.

Now about that blower switch...I have your diagram (thank you!), but don’t know if anything changes by adding a coil split on a DPDT (I won’t use a push/pull, I’d use a mini toggle on/on), with this particular wiring. ?

No it makes no difference normally...and will not in this case. If you look at my diagrams again you can see that the wiring of the bridge pickup that gets switched by the blower switch comes prior to the selector switch and thus it bypasses anything that is selected by the selector switch when the blower is engaged. And in this case it makes no difference where the push pull is in positions 1 and 5 as that will also have no effect. If the Bridge pickup was split on its own with the push pull, engage the blower and you would be back to full bridge humbucker.

 

[ChrisMC]

See if you can puzzle it out...the clue is what gets shunted where.

I've studied it...and I can't figure it out because honestly, I don't understand how it can split ANYTHING, in ANY position, when the series link wires are connected together on the same terminal.  Those Super Switches are pretty smart, indeed.  :toothy10:

No it makes no difference normally...and will not in this case. If you look at my diagrams again you can see that the wiring of the bridge pickup that gets switched by the blower switch comes prior to the selector switch and thus it bypasses anything that is selected by the selector switch when the blower is engaged. And in this case it makes no difference where the push pull is in positions 1 and 5 as that will also have no effect. If the Bridge pickup was split on its own with the push pull, engage the blower and you would be back to full bridge humbucker.

I am becoming convinced that I should just go with this wiring option, which is GREAT because I've poured over wiring diagram after wiring diagram, and just wasn't quite getting where I'd like to be.  This gives me all three regular options (that a regular 3 way switch would have), plus the inside coils (which I'm used to, on my Ibanez, and I like the sound of it), and one more that I've never tried yet (I've not played a guitar with both OUTside coils engaged, instead of the INside coils), plus with the coil splits on the DPDT, AND it giving me the active coils that I prefer (closest to the bridge, and closest to the neck), it gives me all the options that I would want, without getting too crazy. 

One question, a point of confusion on this diagram...in the attached photo, which is a close up of a section of the original diagram, are all four of those circled points needing connected to ground?  Especially the lower left hand circled connection....is that a drawing/schematic error, or...?  It looks like those two terminals are connected to ground, to the chassis on the pot, and I wasn't sure about that one.  I know the leg of the capacitor needs to go to ground, so that takes care of the lower right circled connection, and I assume the upper left circled connection is just the regular grounding point tying over to the volume control pot, which leaves the right hand side circled point, which...is the ground from the input jack, but I wasn't sure if that just needed to go to the regular ground on the volume pot like it usually does, or if that needed to be grounded to the DPDT for some reason. 

Okay...that was more than one question, but was a series of questions about one thing. 

 

[Verne Bunsen]

See if you can puzzle it out...the clue is what gets shunted where.

I've studied it...and I can't figure it out because honestly, I don't understand how it can split ANYTHING, in ANY position, when the series link wires are connected together on the same terminal.  Those Super Switches are pretty smart, indeed.  :toothy10:

This stuff can be difficult to work through without a basic understanding of how the pickups are constructed. Generally speaking, the "hot" lead is the slug coil start and the "ground" lead is the screw coil start. The "series link" is composed of the finish of both coils, and for standard pickup configuration they are joined together either internally or at the end of the lead (wires joined and taped off or both soldered to the same switch terminal).

To sus out which coils are active, look for your path from ground to hot. If the hot wire goes to hot and the ground wire goes to ground and the series link wires are joined and don't go anywhere else, then the path from ground to hot goes from screw start to screw finish to slug finish to slug start. So, both coils are active in series.

If the series link is taken to ground by the switch, then the path from ground to hot is: screw coil start to screw coil finish, but since screw coil finish is going to ground as well as part of the series link, the screw coil is grounded on both ends and is therefore dead. From there, slug finish is also grounded as part of the series link, and slug start is still hot, so the slug coil is active.

If, instead, the series link is taken to hot by the switch, the path from ground to hot goes like this: screw start to screw finish, which is now going to hot as part of the series link, therefore the screw coil is active. The slug coil finish is also at hot as part of the series link which takes us to the slug start which is ALSO at hot. Because of this the slug coil is shorted and therefore inactive, BUT because it is not grounded it is essentially an antenna and can be susceptible to noise.

ccasion14:

 

[stratamania]

For someone that a few posts ago said you knew how you have a lot of questions Grasshopper.

All four are grounds on the tone push / pull pot.

As you look at the diagram.

Top left connects ground from the top of the volume pot to the tone pot.
To the right takes ground to the output jack (this could go from the volume pot but this would give neater wiring like this)
Lower right - tone pot cap grounding
Lower left - is not an error it is essential. It takes things to ground only when the switch is in one position. This is what shunts the bridge and neck pickup to ground in positions 1 - 5.

And -VB- a man who has spent time in a science lab wins the exam question.

It is worth checking out the sticky at the top of this sub forum for more wiring stuff.

One of the forum members here also blogs for Seymour Duncan. It is well worth really going through that in detail as it is well explained and gives a good understanding.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/latest-updates/guitar-wiring-diploma-course

 

[stratamania]

If, instead, the series link is taken to hot by the switch, the path from ground to hot goes like this: screw start to screw finish, which is now going to hot as part of the series link, therefore the screw coil is active. The slug coil finish is also at hot as part of the series link which takes us to the slug start which is ALSO at hot. Because of this the slug coil is shorted and therefore inactive, BUT because it is not grounded it is essentially an antenna and can be susceptible to noise.

ccasion14:

This is the part of this diagram I am not so keen on from a purist standpoint. It will of course work nonetheless.

 

[ChrisMC]

I had to step away from the wiring aspect of the project for a few days; I was admittedly getting a little overwhelmed (and confused) by not being able to figure it out exactly, between the 5 positions that I want, as well as the coil splits, as well as the blower switch. Apparently it’s not as common as one would think, but I WILL figure it out (not without some help, granted).

There’s a plethora of ways to wire and switch a guitar with four coils...and I was really having a difficult time deciding. Now I’ve decided, and it’s just a matter of getting there. I want to end up with:

Master volume
Master tone
5 way selector switch
One mini toggle (blower switch)
One push/pull on the tone pot (coil split)

Neck and bridge will split to single coil (both at the same time/on the same switch is fine), to the outer coils

The split on position 2 of the switch will be to the inner coils of both pickups (simultaneously active)***

Positions 1/3/5 will be full humbucker

Positions 1/5 will be full humbucker or single coil via the push/pull***

***I’m not sure anymore because my brain is getting mushy with all this research, but I think my desire to have the INNER coils on position 2 of the selector switch, and my desire to have the push/pull split to the OUTER coils...is complicating things, no? If I compromised and had position 2 of the selector switch ALSO split to the OUTER coils of both pickups, would that be a much easier way to do it (Suhr pickups)?!

Position 4 is a wild card, but if I follow the Ibanez wiring scheme it will be neck pickup with both coils, but in parallel, but honestly that position is a wild card (as in I’m not too concerned about what it ends up being, as long as it’s not a dead position, although I’m used to that neck with both coils in parallel sound; I like it so I’d like to just follow that.).

And of course the blower switch connected to the bridge pickup (humbucker/series).

....or some other switching variation that still gets the same end result, just wired and switched a different way (maybe accessed in a different way between the selector switch and push/pull).

Or, if I “must” also have the volume pot as a push/pull to accommodate all that, I will (not the blower though, that HAS to be on a mini toggle...push/pulls aren’t fast enough to access for that, and also I haven’t seen a 4 pole push/pull aside from the S1 {which is a push/push}, which isn’t an option because of the limited knob options it has) but I’d rather not if it’s not necessary. I wired a 3 position switch with both humbuckers to one push/pull for coil splits, as well as three single coil sized humbuckers to one mini toggle (DPDT) as a master coil splitter with a 5 way switch, but I didn’t integrate a blower switch into either of those, and also it’s been four years or so since those builds, so I don’t know, but I have a few weeks to figure it out.

Anyway, I had to step back from the wiring part of this upcoming build because it was driving me a little crazy.

I’m ready to Pay Pal somebody for the wiring diagram at this point LOL.

 

[stratamania]

Can we start by breaking it down a little.

What do you deem to be position 1?  I am assuming you are using the backwards DiMarzio numbering. I have changed it below to follow Fender and most other more standard uses.

If we use the following Bridge is position 1 and going towards the neck as position 5 can you just confirm what you would like in each position.

Parts...

Master volume
Master tone
5 way super switch
One mini toggle (blower switch)
One push/pull on the tone pot (coil split)

Pickup configuration HH

1. Bridge Humbucker
2.  Neck pickup in parallel ( * wildcard )
3. Bridge and Neck Humbucker
4. Bridge and Neck Humbucker auto-split to outer coils (or inner coils if possible)
5. Neck Humbucker

Bridge Humbucker also to Blower Switch

Positions 1/5 will be full humbucker or single coil via the push/pull on the tone pot

If you really want a diagram I can make it if you are serious. 

 

[ChrisMC]

Can we start by breaking it down a little.

What do you deem to be position 1?  I am assuming you are using the backwards DiMarzio numbering. I have changed it below to follow Fender and most other more standard uses.

If we use the following Bridge is position 1 and going towards the neck as position 5 can you just confirm what you would like in each position.

Parts...

Master volume
Master tone
5 way super switch
One mini toggle (blower switch)
One push/pull on the tone pot (coil split)

Pickup configuration HH

1. Bridge Humbucker
2.  Neck pickup in parallel ( * wildcard )
3. Bridge and Neck Humbucker
4. Bridge and Neck Humbucker auto-split to outer coils (or inner coils if possible)
5. Neck Humbucker

Bridge Humbucker also to Blower Switch

Positions 1/5 will be full humbucker or single coil via the push/pull on the tone pot

If you really want a diagram I can make it if you are serious.

I wasn't very clear in that I didn't list out the positions all at once, 1-5.  Position one is full humbucker bridge.  I've attached the Ibanez selector positions that I was referring to.  I've had at least three Ibanez's that use that same wiring scheme, and it's a fantastic wiring option for a two HH guitar, I'm used to it, I like it, I just wanted to add a little more flexibility to it, which is where I am getting stuck (and that's saying nothing about the fact that they use the in-line import switch, and trying to find a diagram that translates that to super switch wiring took awhile).  I've also attached what I believe to be the same wiring, on a super switch.  I have never known if the inner coil positions are in series or parallel, or if by nature of what that position on the switch is, whether it's obvious that it's series or parallel.  I already drew the red boxes in the two attachments because I was considering posting them as another question, but here we are.  Ibanez only made the distinction/description on position 4, I presume so that users wouldn't think they had a duplicate selector position, but IF position 2 is parallel, they don't say it.  If it IS parallel on those inner coils, I apparently don't mind, because I've never experienced noise issues, and I like how that sounds (I use that position considerably more often than position 3, both humbuckers on in series actually). 

So, to (hopefully) be crystal clear:

On the 5 way super switch, sans any manipulation from any other push/pull or anything else, the selections would be:

1.  Bridge humbucker (series)
2.  Inner coils of both pickups
3.  All four coils of both bridge and neck (series)
4.  Neck humbucker (parallel)
5.  Neck humbucker (series)

Master volume

Master tone

Push/pull on the tone pot, which splits the coils on both bridge and neck pickups, to the OUTER coils (and if that can only happen in positions 1 and 5, that's totally okay, that's all I'm really looking for actually.  If it also does it in position 3, all the merrier.)

Blower switch connected to bridge, full humbucker/series, bypassing all other controls, straight to output jack.

I'm totally serious.  A couple guys (in person) have wondered if I'll have to do a magnet flip or polarity flip (hot/ground on the wiring) to get this to work the way I want, regarding the inner coils on position 2, and outer coils on the push/pull coil split.  I've only done one magnet flip ever, and it was on a pickup I didn't care about, a long time ago (which was successful, but still...), so I'm not really comfortable enough to do it on my new in the box Suhrs for this build.  Again, if the compromise has to be that on position 2 it needs to split to the OUTside coils because that's the coils I want to be active on the push/pull for the coil split (mainly concerned about the bridge here....as a reminder from a different post/different thread, my bridge humbucker is angled, on a Soloist build, so...I feel splitting to the INNER coil on the bridge wouldn't give me the tone I want, as it's too far away from the bridge on the low E side), then that would just have to be okay (it'll probably still sound pretty great actually...I just worry that because those two coils are farther apart from each other, that it will be TOO 'quacky' sounding.  I like the quack/nasalness of the inner coils together, never heard or tried the outer coils together, but it would probably sound very duck-like, which is fine, quack is good, as long as it doesn't sound like an entire flock of ducks). 

So yes, I'm serious.  We can take this to PM if you would like.  Thank you.

 

[TBurst Std]

May I suggest, rather than look at it from what is possible, look at it what do you need on stage?
Got to grasp the requirements before you can build to them.

 

[ChrisMC]

May I suggest, rather than look at it from what is possible, look at it what do you need on stage?
Got to grasp the requirements before you can build to them.

You may, yes. I should mention however that I prefer one or two guitars that do a lot of different things rather than having multiple guitars that do one or two things. ...and even within that parameter, I’m a bolt on, 21-24 fret, 6 inline machine heads, 25.5” scale length, double cutaway guy (in other words, Strats and super Strats...that about does it for me).

I write and record, and prefer to get to know one or two (preferably just one) guitars really well, and just be able to go wherever the music takes me with that one instrument. Since I’m building and designing this one from scratch (a first for me, from scratch), why not build in some versatility? My Strats haven’t been barely touched in over two years (and they’re nice Strats, too)...and I’m already planning on buying a few more hard shell cases to store all but my hard tail Strat, because this build is probably going to be the only one I’ll be playing, for everything.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that on my main two Strats, they’re wired the exact same with the same pickups and everything else, and they both have 14 pickup selection options (three single coil sized humbuckers, master coil splitter on a mini toggle, and a blender pot for the “7 position mod” allowing neck and bridge at the same time), so this isn’t a situation where I’m trying to cram as many options into one guitar just because it might be possible...I’ve been adding versatility to my guitars for awhile now, and on this one, all I’m really trying to do at the end of the day is add a blower switch and coil splitter to what I’ve already been using on my current main guitar (my Ibanez RG 652 AHM {guitar model names leave one guessing at what exactly it is and what the model name even means anymore}).

 

[ChrisMC]

This is what I’ve been playing for the last couple years (and why my two Siamese twin Strats...a hard tail and a trem tail...haven’t been getting any love since I bought it:

https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products/detail/rg652ahm_02.html

 

[stratamania]

Okay, rather than making it specific what my ask was additionally more thoughts and possibilities have been added. This does not help narrow things down to a basic list.

You have in the thread two diagrams from Dimarzio now and from what I have been able to glean you want to combine both of them giving auto-splits and also a push pull which is in post #7 of the thread and also have the ability in one of the positions for the neck humbucker to be in parallel rather than series.

However this will not work with just the parts mentioned. As the two are logically incompatible. Therefore if the parts remain the same you can not do the parallel neck humbucker along with what you had planned to settle on in post #7 but could do something else for position 4.


Parts...

Master volume
Master tone
5 way super switch
One mini toggle (blower switch)
One push/pull on the tone pot (coil split)

Pickup configuration HH

1. Bridge Humbucker
2.  Bridge and Neck Humbucker auto-split to outer coils (or inner coils if possible)
3. Bridge and Neck Humbucker
4.  ( * wildcard  -  Neck pickup in parallel not possible with other combos)
5. Neck Humbucker

Bridge Humbucker also to Blower Switch

Positions 1/5 will be full humbucker or single coil via the push/pull on the tone pot.

 

[ChrisMC]

You have in the thread two diagrams from Dimarzio now and from what I have been able to glean you want to combine both of them giving auto-splits and also a push pull which is in post #7 of the thread and also have the ability in one of the positions for the neck humbucker to be in parallel rather than series.

However this will not work with just the parts mentioned. As the two are logically incompatible. Therefore if the parts remain the same you can not do the parallel neck humbucker along with what you had planned to settle on in post #7 but could do something else for position 4.


Parts...

Master volume
Master tone
5 way super switch
One mini toggle (blower switch)
One push/pull on the tone pot (coil split)

Pickup configuration HH

1. Bridge Humbucker
2.  Bridge and Neck Humbucker auto-split to outer coils (or inner coils if possible)
3. Bridge and Neck Humbucker
4.  ( * wildcard  -  Neck pickup in parallel not possible with other combos)
5. Neck Humbucker

Bridge Humbucker also to Blower Switch

Positions 1/5 will be full humbucker or single coil via the push/pull on the tone pot.

I hadn’t found that second wiring diagram that I posted when I made the original post, and figured I’d keep this thread going rather than start a new one...it has a lot of great information in it already.

So, I’m basically just trying to add a blower switch and coil splits to what I’ve already been using (Second diagram/Ibanez’s wiring scheme), with the exception of Position 4 on the switch, as that’s the least of my concerns and I’m fine with compromising that selection to get the rest. As far as what Position 4 will actually be...if I were taking it to a tech to wire up for me, I would say “Surprise me.”.

As long as the coil split on the push/pull split to the outside coils, we’re on the same page with the switching you described.

 

[stratamania]

Yes better to keep it in the same thread as it is the same discourse.

I have an idea for position 4...