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which CNC router?
- Thread starter compound2
- Start date
There's tons, man. Depends on size needs, speed needs, price limitations, software, accuracy, etc...
I've got a friend in the business, he works in the factory that makes the CNCs for PRS, Martin, etc...
Tell us your needs and budget, and we may be able to help. The machine I'd get (if I got one) is around $5000 IIRC.
I've got a friend in the business, he works in the factory that makes the CNCs for PRS, Martin, etc...
Tell us your needs and budget, and we may be able to help. The machine I'd get (if I got one) is around $5000 IIRC.
it's xmas; can you build me one?Max said:Neck through? You're looking at a pretty large table. I'm thinking 5'x2' or so. That'll bring the cost up a lot.
S
swarfrat
Guest
Build your own, lots of guys doing it at CNCZone
I have one, it works great, I built it myself , and I can build you one too, for less than 4G's a lot less. Mines big enough to do bodies 2' x 4' but can be scaled up or down depending on budget and space.
I've done a few bodies so far, no necks yet. as far as accuracy, I carved my Kids names in the side of a # 2 pencil. I know I can buy all kinds of endmills for this thing, some as small as 1/64 diameter.
I could easily do inlay work with this machine. I could cut the inlay material and with the same design, cut the route for a perfect fit.
The bodies I have done are almost ready for paint straight off the machine, just a little light sanding and it IS ready for finish
And btw, 2X4 is plent big enough for a neck-through
I've done a few bodies so far, no necks yet. as far as accuracy, I carved my Kids names in the side of a # 2 pencil. I know I can buy all kinds of endmills for this thing, some as small as 1/64 diameter.
I could easily do inlay work with this machine. I could cut the inlay material and with the same design, cut the route for a perfect fit.
The bodies I have done are almost ready for paint straight off the machine, just a little light sanding and it IS ready for finish
And btw, 2X4 is plent big enough for a neck-through
What do you guys use for control sorftware? Alfang I didn't know you had built one of these. Id wanted to for some time but don't have the space. Are you using numeric code (g- code) or are you just using a printer out and a vector style drawing program like correl draw? If you use g/m code do you have cad/cam?
Dan, my control software is Mach3, I design in solidworks, I generate my g-code in mastercam.
I haven't said too much about it here, because I wasn't sure i was ready to share it. I've machined a couple bodies outta pine 2 x 4's just for practice. But It's not gonna stop me from buyin a warmoth body.
The tummy cut on my strat body took about 3 hours to cut, I can speed that up by lowering the resolution, but it's almost ready for paint when it comes out now.
And I'll warn you all now, your not gonna compete with warmoth, with a machine like this, quality wise yes ( if you have the right wood) but youd need a bunch of these machines to make enough guitar parts to have a business.
But its a lotta fun to play with. I'm using it for other projects for which I hope to have a website up soon
I haven't said too much about it here, because I wasn't sure i was ready to share it. I've machined a couple bodies outta pine 2 x 4's just for practice. But It's not gonna stop me from buyin a warmoth body.
The tummy cut on my strat body took about 3 hours to cut, I can speed that up by lowering the resolution, but it's almost ready for paint when it comes out now.
And I'll warn you all now, your not gonna compete with warmoth, with a machine like this, quality wise yes ( if you have the right wood) but youd need a bunch of these machines to make enough guitar parts to have a business.
But its a lotta fun to play with. I'm using it for other projects for which I hope to have a website up soon
cool, love it. where did you learn master cam? im pretty good with cad/cam and have a functional coppy of mastercam 9.1. i also have x2mr2 but i think it's over rated i learned on 9.1 and it is very powerful. my copy of x is warez, i admit it, but i dont use it because i need to run a dated version of windows for the emulator to work plus it's illegal.
if you want someone to bounce ideas off of you can pm me. also depending on the spindle speed and rigidity of the machine you should be able to cut that time back quite a bit. if it's one of those build your own from mdf plans that might be the practical limit on a dense wood..
i dont have solid works, i do have a very structured and geometric approach to drafting, you'd be surprised how little many drafters learn in school. im always telling people the right way to do something so they dont have to chase there tale on geometry that wont chain into curves and such. that's neither here nor there, i'm pretty talented but i cant find an employer that'll let me prove it so im starting school this semester and using the gi bill, i might need a hobby. even if it's over the internet 3000 miles away.
i know your not taking orders or anything, but f you want to do any type of collaboration on something im interested.
if you want someone to bounce ideas off of you can pm me. also depending on the spindle speed and rigidity of the machine you should be able to cut that time back quite a bit. if it's one of those build your own from mdf plans that might be the practical limit on a dense wood..
i dont have solid works, i do have a very structured and geometric approach to drafting, you'd be surprised how little many drafters learn in school. im always telling people the right way to do something so they dont have to chase there tale on geometry that wont chain into curves and such. that's neither here nor there, i'm pretty talented but i cant find an employer that'll let me prove it so im starting school this semester and using the gi bill, i might need a hobby. even if it's over the internet 3000 miles away.
i know your not taking orders or anything, but f you want to do any type of collaboration on something im interested.
I have used Autocad in the past, self taught, but believe it or not I used this guys tutorial videos on making guitars http://www.cncguitar.org:7171/order.htm
I ordered the body design and body machining videos, still need the 2 neck videos, This is a guy who made these at his house and he's a little rough but likeable and goes into great step by step detail to show you how to design in solidworks
and Mastercam.
This next one http://www.machsupport.com/ Is the site for mach3 which is a free download, and allows you to run the program in a simulation mode, until you pay the $165 for a license. There are great videos and tutorials on this website to show you how to setup that program to run your machine.
I built my first machine from MDF and it works fine, but MDF is heavy, and you want all your parts to be as rigid and light as possible so that the motors aren't having to work so hard to change the momentum into a dif direction.
The first machine was run with allthread, threaded rod, that prooved to be very accurate with very high resolution, but slow.
The second machine was built from 3/4 oak veniered plywood, and a chain drive system. This machine is much quicker, but loses a little resolution, but is still accurate to .0001 of an inch or better.
I ordered the body design and body machining videos, still need the 2 neck videos, This is a guy who made these at his house and he's a little rough but likeable and goes into great step by step detail to show you how to design in solidworks
and Mastercam.
This next one http://www.machsupport.com/ Is the site for mach3 which is a free download, and allows you to run the program in a simulation mode, until you pay the $165 for a license. There are great videos and tutorials on this website to show you how to setup that program to run your machine.
I built my first machine from MDF and it works fine, but MDF is heavy, and you want all your parts to be as rigid and light as possible so that the motors aren't having to work so hard to change the momentum into a dif direction.
The first machine was run with allthread, threaded rod, that prooved to be very accurate with very high resolution, but slow.
The second machine was built from 3/4 oak veniered plywood, and a chain drive system. This machine is much quicker, but loses a little resolution, but is still accurate to .0001 of an inch or better.
self taught is the best way, i took classes in mechanical drafting in highschool, then cad, then i was a machinist in the airforce, the classes definately taught me things that i use but i learned more when the teacher gave me a tutorial book in mastercam 9 and let me finnish those lessons with no instruction. the class curriculum never gave the best way to do something and sometimes was just plain impractical and wrong.
i have an induma mill, like a bridgeport series1 but a little better, i plan to buy some anti backlash leadscrew nuts, (ball screws are a bit expensive,) and the servos and convert it using a pc based controller running linuxCNC on a distribution of ubuntu.
i will be able to cut necks but not much else without multiple fixturing. it will be more for automotive parts and if i feel like it some hardware :toothy10: i wont have the proper spindle speeds for soft woods but ill have the rigidity to cut even the hardest ebony with ease..
i would someday like to build something like you've got too.. but i can use the mill for the pickup/bridge/neckpocket routes if i wanted to cut a body on the saw.
i have an induma mill, like a bridgeport series1 but a little better, i plan to buy some anti backlash leadscrew nuts, (ball screws are a bit expensive,) and the servos and convert it using a pc based controller running linuxCNC on a distribution of ubuntu.
i will be able to cut necks but not much else without multiple fixturing. it will be more for automotive parts and if i feel like it some hardware :toothy10: i wont have the proper spindle speeds for soft woods but ill have the rigidity to cut even the hardest ebony with ease..
i would someday like to build something like you've got too.. but i can use the mill for the pickup/bridge/neckpocket routes if i wanted to cut a body on the saw.
S
swarfrat
Guest
Check out Linux EMC for machine control. Its machine control, not CAM though. Still need to generate g-code somehow.
swarfrat said:Check out Linux EMC for machine control. Its machine control, not CAM though. Still need to generate g-code somehow.
i have mastercam and i can do it the old fashioned way as well! it just takes a while to do 3d features
anyway yes i was looking at linux emc, the website is linux cnc, i just typed the wrong one
compound2 said:hi
i'm going to buy a CNC router machine for making fret/fingerboards as well as inlaying. i wanna know what machine i will have to buy. let me know if you've got any useful info. thanks.
If all you're gonna make is fretboards, I can think of better ways to do it than using a CNC router........
i was gonna mention this as well. small endmills flex and break easily, using a vertical spindle is not ideal, cutter deflection will seriously mess with fret placement, you can correct for that type of thing on metal where the density and hardness are constant. a cnc saw or a gang saw would be better. if you build and router that can be configured with a horizontal slower turning spindle then it is viable if you take measures to reduce backlash, you would also need to map the machine for inconsistantcies. you will need a precise way to measure actual machine location vs target location to make a profile to follow. cnc machines only have feedback in the stepper motors not in actual machine position which can be different from calculated. this is why mills are built so rigid. but if you are clever you could add true feedback with a DRO (digital read out) or a laser system.
high resolution is not the same as accurate.
it would be more advantageous to cut fret slots all at the same time if you could build the machine, totaly worth it though.
high resolution is not the same as accurate.
it would be more advantageous to cut fret slots all at the same time if you could build the machine, totaly worth it though.
Well Dan, I'm gonna disagree with you. While a CNC machine may not be the cheapest way to cut fret slots, ie... you don't make or buy a CNC just for that.
I don't know what you mean, and i'm not sure you know what you mean when you say resolution is not the same as accurate. As long as the machine is calibrated, hi resolution is accurate.
And by resolution I mean the stepper motor moves the tool 1/20th of an inch per revolution vs 1/2 inch per revolution. The higher the resolution the better the accuracy.
As far as cutting fret slots and backlash and all that other crap you mentioned, it can all be delt with very easily, and cut the slots exactly where you want them.
I'm not here to sell anyone on CNC. But I've got 2 machines that do exactly and precisely what I tell them to do. I have no problem at all with small end mills chatering or breaking or walking or whatever.
And I dont use any servo feedback at all, it's all steppers, and they are as accurate as anything else. You just have to know what your doing is all
I don't know what you mean, and i'm not sure you know what you mean when you say resolution is not the same as accurate. As long as the machine is calibrated, hi resolution is accurate.
And by resolution I mean the stepper motor moves the tool 1/20th of an inch per revolution vs 1/2 inch per revolution. The higher the resolution the better the accuracy.
As far as cutting fret slots and backlash and all that other crap you mentioned, it can all be delt with very easily, and cut the slots exactly where you want them.
I'm not here to sell anyone on CNC. But I've got 2 machines that do exactly and precisely what I tell them to do. I have no problem at all with small end mills chatering or breaking or walking or whatever.
And I dont use any servo feedback at all, it's all steppers, and they are as accurate as anything else. You just have to know what your doing is all
dont want to argue, read the post, endmills deflect. especially ones small enough to cut fret slots. they'll even deflect on wood.
and yes it is acurate as long as calibrated. that is true but you cant calibrate it without a standard. knowing that one step translates into .0001 doesnt prove it acurate at every poit across 48" of travel. also there is backlash, if you have .010" backlash you can be acurate as long as you feed only in one direction, as the machine feeds in the other direction you will be .010 off from the ldeal location because of slop in the feed mechinism. that logic works with slow feeds but at wood cutting feeds you have to battle over run caused by momentum as well so backlash is a big factor in that.
i can go further into the wooden slideways(or do you use wheels of questionable roundness and concentricity) and perpendicularity of each axis to the next and wood swell and concentricity of the sprockets you use to drive it and chain stretch.
i have run cmm machines that measure to 10millioths accuracy but yeah i dont know the difference between resolution and acuracy.
and yes it is acurate as long as calibrated. that is true but you cant calibrate it without a standard. knowing that one step translates into .0001 doesnt prove it acurate at every poit across 48" of travel. also there is backlash, if you have .010" backlash you can be acurate as long as you feed only in one direction, as the machine feeds in the other direction you will be .010 off from the ldeal location because of slop in the feed mechinism. that logic works with slow feeds but at wood cutting feeds you have to battle over run caused by momentum as well so backlash is a big factor in that.
i can go further into the wooden slideways(or do you use wheels of questionable roundness and concentricity) and perpendicularity of each axis to the next and wood swell and concentricity of the sprockets you use to drive it and chain stretch.
i have run cmm machines that measure to 10millioths accuracy but yeah i dont know the difference between resolution and acuracy.
S
swarfrat
Guest
This is something I've tossed about as well. The takeaway is that you really need a slitting saw rather than and endmill to cut fret slots. It's a very thin slot to mill. Especially when you consider you might need to watch tearout on one side of the cutter, and the wood properties define how much offset you'll need, rather than the precision of your machine.
If you're CNC'ing at home I wouldn't worry about gang sawing vs cutting 21-24 slots, but I really think you want to saw them rather than mill.
If you're CNC'ing at home I wouldn't worry about gang sawing vs cutting 21-24 slots, but I really think you want to saw them rather than mill.
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