What tuner hole size for these bad boys?

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
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27
Hey guys.

I am looking at some CBS necks at Warmoth and wondering what tuner hole size are needed for these https://www.thomann.de/se/schaller_f_series_70s_6l_ni.htm Schaller F Series 70's.
I mean they are vintage tuners, so should I choose Vintage Style (11/32")?
But at the same time there is a Schaller/Modern Fender/Sperzel(25/64") to choose, and the tuners are from Schaller.
As y'all can tell I have the IQ of a styrofoam cup, any help is appreciated.

Thanks.
 

ragamuffin

Senior member
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913
They're listed as having a "9.8mm bore" so you definitely want the "Schaller" tuner holes
 

stratamania

Senior member
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9,217
Deep Purple in Rock said:
ragamuffin said:
They're listed as having a "9.8mm bore" so you definitely want the "Schaller" tuner holes

Thanks a lot for the help.

Hello, I assume you are also the poster "Deep Purple Machine Head" on TGP and you asked a similar question on TGP yesterday.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/tuning-holes-too-big-with-0-2mm.2320805/#post-33907280

F Series Tuners as I mentioned yesterday have a difference to modern tuners needing a 10mm or 25/64" bore.

The size of the bore is not the only problem. But a Warmoth CBS style neck is different to the centre to centre measurement of Strats with F Style tuners so you will end up with the wrong spacing between the holes for this style of tuner.

Also F Style tuners have a bushing that requires a degree of skill to fit. This is the case whether using the Schaller or Fender 70s F style tuners.

Here is a build where I did use F tuners which you might find useful.

Max goes to Woodstock (Another Strat Build )

And finally Welcome to the Forum this link has a lot of useful information for new members.

PS If you want to build a Blackmore type Strat he does not use F tuners, despite them being fitted to the Fender Blackmore Signature Strat, but rather he uses Sperzel locking tuners. He also has never used Seymour Duncan Quarter pounders that Fender but in that Strat.

 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
stratamania said:
Deep Purple in Rock said:
ragamuffin said:
They're listed as having a "9.8mm bore" so you definitely want the "Schaller" tuner holes

Thanks a lot for the help.

Hello, I assume you are also the poster "Deep Purple Machine Head" on TGP and you asked a similar question on TGP yesterday.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/tuning-holes-too-big-with-0-2mm.2320805/#post-33907280

F Series Tuners as I mentioned yesterday have a difference to modern tuners needing a 10mm or 25/64" bore.

The size of the bore is not the only problem. But a Warmoth CBS style neck is different to the centre to centre measurement of Strats with F Style tuners so you will end up with the wrong spacing between the holes for this style of tuner.

Also F Style tuners have a bushing that requires a degree of skill to fit. This is the case whether using the Schaller or Fender 70s F style tuners.

Here is a build where I did use F tuners which you might find useful.

Max goes to Woodstock (Another Strat Build )

And finally Welcome to the Forum this link has a lot of useful information for new members.

PS If you want to build a Blackmore type Strat he does not use F tuners, despite them being fitted to the Fender Blackmore Signature Strat, but rather he uses Sperzel locking tuners. He also has never used Seymour Duncan Quarter pounders that Fender but in that Strat.

You are right, that is me, thought I might as well get a new neck than work on the ones I already have (Fender American Special).
So if I understand you right, Warmoth CBS centers their holes differently, the center of one hole to the other, but Musikraft centers the holes of their CBS necks as the original?

It's not the Blackmore strat I am trying to replicate (although he is my favorite guitarist as you rightly assumed).
It is in fact this one, http://www.fendercustomshop.com/series/artist/yngwie-malmsteen-signature-stratocaster-scalloped-maple-fingerboard-vintage-white/ (- the scallops).
I think it looks great.



 

stratamania

Senior member
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9,217
I agree the Yngwie model is an excellent Strat. I have one (probably my favourite strat I have owned in over 40 years) although mine is older from around 2009/10 and was the last year with the HS3 pickups prior to the Seymour Duncan YJMs.

It is similar to this one.

https://www.fender.com/en-BE/electric-guitars/stratocaster/yngwie-malmsteen-stratocaster/0107112841.html

The custom shop model doesn't have a skunk stripe so must be a two piece maple/maple neck.

Back to necks - Warmoth does offer the option of scallops if you are looking to have those whereas Musikraft does not offer this as an option. For F tuners Musikraft offer a 10 mm F tuner option which has the spacing needed, the modern 10mm on a CBS would not. The Warmoth CBS headstock necks do not offer a spacing option so you would have fit issues with F tuners. So yes the differences are the spacing between the centre of the holes.

Other specs to be aware of with the Malmsteen is they are 1 5/8" nuts and use vintage spaced tremolos which some find a little close to the edge of the fingerboard. The Blackmore is the same nut width but has a deeper U shape neck and the scallops are not as deep and don't go all the way across the board particularly at the lower frets. (I have also a Blackmore Strat so am familiar with the differences).

 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
stratamania said:
I agree the Yngwie model is an excellent Strat. I have one (probably my favourite strat I have owned in over 40 years) although mine is older from around 2009/10 and was the last year with the HS3 pickups prior to the Seymour Duncan YJMs.

It is similar to this one.

https://www.fender.com/en-BE/electric-guitars/stratocaster/yngwie-malmsteen-stratocaster/0107112841.html

The custom shop model doesn't have a skunk stripe so must be a two piece maple/maple neck.

Back to necks - Warmoth does offer the option of scallops if you are looking to have those whereas Musikraft does not offer this as an option. For F tuners Musikraft offer a 10 mm F tuner option which has the spacing needed, the modern 10mm on a CBS would not. The Warmoth CBS headstock necks do not offer a spacing option so you would have fit issues with F tuners. So yes the differences are the spacing between the centre of the holes.

Other specs to be aware of with the Malmsteen is they are 1 5/8" nuts and use vintage spaced tremolos which some find a little close to the edge of the fingerboard. The Blackmore is the same nut width but has a deeper U shape neck and the scallops are not as deep and don't go all the way across the board particularly at the lower frets. (I have also a Blackmore Strat so am familiar with the differences).

Thanks a lot for your help, I appreciate it a lot.
Yeah, I noticed that Musikraft doesn't offer scallops, hell is up with that?
And Warmoth only offers it with the modern truss rod, and I'm a bit paranoid of how it would effect the sound of HS-3's.

So I have two options.
Musikraft with no scallops, same type of truss rod and F tuners.
Warmoth with scallops and no F tuners (I can go for modern F locking tuners though) + modern truss rod maybe having a negative effect on the sound.
Scallops are quite important but so is the sound the neck produces.
Darn it, what to do?!
 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
Maybe I should go the Musikraft route and put these on https://www.allparts.com/collections/fret-wire/products/lt-0877-jumbo-fret-wire.
These should surely do the "same job" as a scalloped neck.

Edit: Scratch that idea, saw some pictures of how it would look like, it's ****ing nuts!
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,217
As you have seen the greater amount of options that Warmoth offers on necks is on the modern construction, the others do not offer scallops. This will be due to the tooling set ups that are used for the scallop process which Warmoth does prior to fretting being set up for the modern type.

I have scalloped, non scalloped, Warmoth Vintage Modern and Modern necks. Although I do not have a Modern that has been scalloped. In terms of sound and feel like most instruments I take each one as being its own thing, but if you are going after a particular vibe and feel that is it's own thing once again.

You probably don't want to go bigger than 6000 fret wire which to me does not feel like a scalloped neck which are their own thing. Another option you have would be to hand scallop the neck yourself or have someone who does that type of work do it for you.
 

Sadie-f

Senior member
Messages
427
Last I knew, musikraft does a mild scallop by default, mine has that, and it's well done, no extra charge.
 

TBurst Std

Senior member
Messages
2,591
Or get the neck you want and have

http://dccustomguitars.com/scalloping.htm

Do the scalloping.  That’s what I did as I wanted a scallop starting at fret 5 and up. They did a wonderful job. 
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,217
TBurst Std said:
Or get the neck you want and have

http://dccustomguitars.com/scalloping.htm

Do the scalloping.  That’s what I did as I wanted a scallop starting at fret 5 and up. They did a wonderful job. 

Good to hear an independent review.

Sadie-f said:
Last I knew, musikraft does a mild scallop by default, mine has that, and it's well done, no extra charge.

They don't. They offer a squared edge or semi rolled edge fingerboard at no extra cost and heavy rolled which has an upcharge. But rolled fingerboard edges is not scalloping. Your neck probably has a semi rolled edge.

 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
stratamania said:
As you have seen the greater amount of options that Warmoth offers on necks is on the modern construction, the others do not offer scallops. This will be due to the tooling set ups that are used for the scallop process which Warmoth does prior to fretting being set up for the modern type.

I have scalloped, non scalloped, Warmoth Vintage Modern and Modern necks. Although I do not have a Modern that has been scalloped. In terms of sound and feel like most instruments I take each one as being its own thing, but if you are going after a particular vibe and feel that is it's own thing once again.

You probably don't want to go bigger than 6000 fret wire which to me does not feel like a scalloped neck which are their own thing. Another option you have would be to hand scallop the neck yourself or have someone who does that type of work do it for you.

Great advice.
I'm thinking of scalloping it myself.
But my only concern is if the side inlays will be "far enough" from the maple fretboard so that I can scallop it 3mm (that's the standard depth as far as I know) without cutting into the side dots.
I am looking at my American Special maple/maple neck and if I went for 3 mm I would surely reach the side inlay dots and "ruin" the aesthetics.
Is your Musikraft necks side dots the same distance from "the top of the fretboard" as your Malmsteen signature?
 

stratamania

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9,217
Deep Purple in Rock said:
Is your Musikraft necks side dots the same distance from "the top of the fretboard" as your Malmsteen signature?

Thanks for the feedback, per this question. The simple answer is no.

My Malmsteen signature is a one piece maple neck and the Musikfraft is a slab board. On the Malmsteen the side dots have been deliberately placed relatively lower than for example a one-piece Fender Tele neck I have here to take into account the scallops. I would estimate the Malmsteen scallop is probably closer to 3mm from the top of a line drawn across the frets to the bottom of the scallop. So the scallop itself may be closer to 2mm.

The Musikraft I ordered with 50/50 side dot placement where the centre of the dot is on the seam between the board and neck shaft. You might be able to get a 1 to 1.5mm deep scallop add about 1 - 1.5mm dependent on the fret size used and you would still be able to achieve a reasonable scallop I think.

A pic I was able to find of the two piece FCS model Yngwie with two piece maple neck seems to place most of the side dot below the board though it is difficult to see. This gives what is a similar position as on the one piece neck that I have.

fender_custom_shop_yngwie_malmsteen_stratocaster_guitar_r103070_9_2048x2048.jpg


This has got me thinking about another project  :laughing7:
 

J-Bones

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Messages
34
If you try to have a Vintage-Modern neck scalloped after receiving it, there is a high probability you will expose the side dot material through the fretboard. On Modern necks--due to the thicker fretboard--the side dots are lowered to prevent this. Vintage might be fine but the risk is yours; the fretboards are still on the thinner side.
 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
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stratamania said:
Deep Purple in Rock said:
Is your Musikraft necks side dots the same distance from "the top of the fretboard" as your Malmsteen signature?

Thanks for the feedback, per this question. The simple answer is no.

My Malmsteen signature is a one piece maple neck and the Musikfraft is a slab board. On the Malmsteen the side dots have been deliberately placed relatively lower than for example a one-piece Fender Tele neck I have here to take into account the scallops. I would estimate the Malmsteen scallop is probably closer to 3mm from the top of a line drawn across the frets to the bottom of the scallop. So the scallop itself may be closer to 2mm.

The Musikraft I ordered with 50/50 side dot placement where the centre of the dot is on the seam between the board and neck shaft. You might be able to get a 1 to 1.5mm deep scallop add about 1 - 1.5mm dependent on the fret size used and you would still be able to achieve a reasonable scallop I think.

This has got me thinking about another project  :laughing7:

So what if you didn't take the 50/50 side dot?
Would the side dot be placed on the fretboard or below the fretboard instead of on the seam between the board and neck shaft?
 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
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J-Bones said:
If you try to have a Vintage-Modern neck scalloped after receiving it, there is a high probability you will expose the side dot material through the fretboard. On Modern necks--due to the thicker fretboard--the side dots are lowered to prevent this. Vintage might be fine but the risk is yours; the fretboards are still on the thinner side.

I just can't stand the sound of the modern neck, I watched one video where Aaron from Warmoth demonstrated the different sound qualities between the different neck types and the Modern and Vintage/Modern sounded really bad (subjective I know) compared to the vintage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6XXcDiPcKc&ab_channel=WarmothGuitarProducts

Warmoth and Aaron are a class act though, it's unfortunate that the necks they offer are not up my alley.
 

stratamania

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Messages
9,217
Deep Purple in Rock said:
So what if you didn't take the 50/50 side dot?
Would the side dot be placed on the fretboard or below the fretboard instead of on the seam between the board and neck shaft?

The 50/50 side dot places it lower than the alternative which is the centre of the fingerboard which is higher of course.

I suppose one wild option would be no side dots and drill for them and fit them yourself - though this is not always an option depending on where one sources a neck from. Or just go for a slightly shallower scallop.

 

Deep Purple in Rock

Active member
Messages
27
stratamania said:
Deep Purple in Rock said:
So what if you didn't take the 50/50 side dot?
Would the side dot be placed on the fretboard or below the fretboard instead of on the seam between the board and neck shaft?

The 50/50 side dot places it lower than the alternative which is the centre of the fingerboard which is higher of course.

I suppose one wild option would be no side dots and drill for them and fit them yourself - though this is not always an option depending on where one sources a neck from. Or just go for a slightly shallower scallop.

So I should go 50/50 on a maple neck maple fretboard to come as close to the FCS malmsteen signature as I can.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,217
Deep Purple in Rock said:
stratamania said:
Deep Purple in Rock said:
So what if you didn't take the 50/50 side dot?
Would the side dot be placed on the fretboard or below the fretboard instead of on the seam between the board and neck shaft?

The 50/50 side dot places it lower than the alternative which is the centre of the fingerboard which is higher of course.

I suppose one wild option would be no side dots and drill for them and fit them yourself - though this is not always an option depending on where one sources a neck from. Or just go for a slightly shallower scallop.

So I should go 50/50 on a maple neck maple fretboard to come as close to the FCS malmsteen signature as I can.

Of the options discussed that would be the closest. Interestingly the early Malmsteen sigs had much shallower scallops than in more recent years.

 
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