What about this tremolo? (tremolo "tuning" systems)

[Edoardo]

- I'm going to get a set of shaller locking tuners and a Wilkinson recessed tremolo
- I'm going to mount .011 strings

Will I need to get additional springs?
Will some tuning system such as the hipshot tremsetter be of any use?

Thanks a lot

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I doubt you'll need more than 3 springs, but get a spare just in case. 4 springs feels a bit different - a bit more resistance, which is more a matter of personal preference than anything.

Forget the tremsetter - there's no need for it in a well set-up guitar and it detracts from playability.

 

[Cagey]

I usually put all 5 springs on my guitars. I always float my bridges, and I find with the full set of springs that it has a more reliable return to neutral. That is, it tends to stay in tune when you're done torturing it.

It does feel different, though. The tension vs. extension of the spring doesn't seem to be linear. For instance, if you're running a set of 9s, you've got roughly 115 pounds of pull from the strings, so you need 115 pounds of pull from the springs to balance it. If there are 3 springs, that means each one has to pull a little over 38 pounds to counteract the strings. If there are 5, then each spring only has to pull 23 pounds. The springs are at different extensions, though, so the amount of force it takes to stretch them further changes. But, it seems like if you spread the load out, it behaves more predictably. 

It's worth experimenting with to find what works best for a given situation. For what springs cost, it's cheap entertainment.

 

[SustainerPlayer]

For instance, if you're running a set of 9s, you've got roughly 115 pounds of pull from the strings, so you need 115 pounds of pull from the springs to balance it.

So trems are only for He-man?  :icon_jokercolor:

It is not a 1:1 exchange of forces here - thankfully. Else it would be impossible to work the tremolo.

I believe the english term is lever?

A lot of the pull of the strings goes into tremolo posts. So the strings are only pulling  ... say 1/5 (don't know exactly) or something like that.

Exactly the same force you have to use to work the tremolo.

 

[drewfx]

For instance, if you're running a set of 9s, you've got roughly 115 pounds of pull from the strings, so you need 115 pounds of pull from the springs to balance it.

So trems are only for He-man?  :icon_jokercolor:

It is not a 1:1 exchange of forces here - thankfully. Else it would be impossible to work the tremolo.

I believe the english term is lever?

A lot of the pull of the strings goes into tremolo posts. So the strings are only pulling  ... say 1/5 (don't know exactly) or something like that.

Exactly the same force you have to use to work the tremolo.

The forces of the strings and springs are in equilibrium. You don't need to apply a full 115 pounds of force to the bar to disturb the equilibrium.

 

[Cagey]

Right. It's kinda like keeping a motorcycle upright. Thing weighs anywhere from 300lbs to 800lbs, and who can deal with that? But as long as you keep the forces centered you can manage it.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I must concur, more springs assist in tuning stability.

I use a Tremol-No, so I use 4 springs.

 

[Edoardo]

WAIT!!!  :icon_biggrin:

Can you enlighten me on the "floating" bridge thing?

I thought a recessed Wilkinson VS100 to be a floating bridge, by construction.

 

[Cagey]

Floating simply means there's no positive stop. The bridge is balanced between the strings and springs, so you can pull up and sharp notes/chords as well as push down and flat them. Not everybody sets them up that way, because in the past the designs weren't reliable about returning to neutral. But, since about 1980 when the Floyd Rose and Wilkinson designs came out, vibrato predictability has become the norm. As long as you've got locking tuners and a well-formed nut, you don't have to worry.

 

[Edoardo]

Floating simply means there's no positive stop. The bridge is balanced between the strings and springs, so you can pull up and sharp notes/chords as well as push down and flat them. Not everybody sets them up that way, because in the past the designs weren't reliable about returning to neutral. But, since about 1980 when the Floyd Rose and Wilkinson designs came out, vibrato predictability has become the norm. As long as you've got locking tuners and a well-formed nut, you don't have to worry.

Yes I'm getting a wilkinson and locking tuners. But do I have to tell the luthier anything?

 

[Cagey]

If it's recessed, he'll probably assume you want it to float. Otherwise, you may have to say so if that's what you want.

 

[Edoardo]

If it's recessed, he'll probably assume you want it to float. Otherwise, you may have to say so if that's what you want.

Thanks man. I owe you more than a bottle of wine

 

[Cagey]

No problem. Happy to pass along what I've learned. Wish there would have been an internet back when I was a puppy. Would've saved a lotta heartache.