WARNING : Careful with screws supplied with Gotoh Vintage Style tuners !!!

[Unwound G]

If anyone using an ordinary screwdriver to screw in mounting screws supplied with Gotoh Vintage Style tuners from Warmoth, be very careful not to snap the screws.  The Phillip heads also tend to strip easily.

I am not sure why they have changed from the stronger stainless steel screws to these new alloy screws which are also longer (not much less than the thickness of a headstock).  Fortunately, I have in stock older Gotoh/Kluson screws as I managed to snap 3 when I was installing a new set of tuners recently received from Warmoth.  The positive side is that these alloy screws broken inside the holes were soft enough to be drilled out using ordinary drill bits.

 

[jackthehack]

You need to drill pilot holes, lightly lube the screws and use an appropriately sized screwdriver when installing those, or any other tuner screws and they'll work just fine.

 

[TroubledTreble]

+1 Jack

I have installed these twice. It is very important to get the correct size pilot hole and make it deep enough. The head slots for the phillips does seem to be a bit off so it's also important to use the correct driver even if it means going to the hardware store with screw in hand.

That sucks it broke on you. A good warning to others since these screws are rather small and can only take so much.

 

[Unwound G]

I drilled pilot holes but not to the depth of the screw (since the length is almost as thick as the headstock and if I go any further, the drill bit will come out at the face side).  I lubed the screw threads with candle wax and they still snapped as I try to tighten making sure the tuners are flush with the wood.

My complaint is that these alloy screws are just too brittle and soft.  They should be more heavy duty like the older steel screws and not worry about snapping.   With the present metal prices, I guess companies are cutting costs on auxiliary items for the main item.  StewMac sells each steel screw for $0.32 and nickel ones at $0.50 each !!!

 

[tfarny]

I agree those screws are terrible and you should use harder replacements. Any screw that's going into hard maple needs to be darn hard.

 

[Watershed]

Happened to me too. 

I had the pilot hole and everything squared away.  I have done plenty of others without issue.

It took almost no torque to break that screw.  Really, it's not like I was leaning into it.

I suppose an even larger hole, and it wouldn't have been an issue.  Just don't underestimate how soft those screws are.
Stainless is the way to go.  I wouldn't even try using them again.

 

[-CB-]

Of any screw I've seen snapped, every one has had too small a pilot hole drilled.

 

[Unwound G]

Another victim from one of our forum member.

http://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=11159.0

 

[back2thefutre]

i did the same thing.  :doh:

 

[-CB-]

Listen, go read what I wrote there.  Learn how to size a drill for the type of wood yer using and quit trying blame somebody else, by way of their product, for not using the right pilot drill.

For tuner screws, you need a pilot drill that is about .010 smaller then the largest diameter of the sharp threads.... no smaller than that.  You cant compress maple very well.  You need to DISPLACE the wood into the voids on the minor thread diameter.

Ok, now ya know this... go do it.

 

[Superbeast520]

CB's right... your pilot hole will be almost as big as the screw shaft itself....its understandable to think that if ya crank them babies tight in there that they will be super secure, but the reality is they will break.....the threads are what hold them fast not a tight hole......though I know we all love a tight...well...better not get into that...you know if your stripping the head of the screw its definantly too tight....using wax on the threads is a big help as well...but won't compensate for a pilot hole that is too small for the screw.

 

[Unwound G]

Read HiggyDude's experience

http://www.higgydude.com/tuners/63-tele-tuners.asp

 

[-CB-]

Yup, seems like lots of folks out there are flippin' clueless when it comes to drilling pilot holes.

I'm sure we could Google the subject of broken tuner screws.... and it all boils down to the same thing:  Make the hole the right size and you wont break the screw.

Another thing to remember with tuner screws, is that they are not subject to nearly the "pull out" load as they are in load to prevent the tuner from rotating.  They can be in there pretty loose, and still work just great.  Not that we want them to be loose, but we do not want them to be tight.  Some tuners dont use screws at all, but only locator pins, and the tuners is held in place by the bushing. 

Somebody get a tuner screw and mic it... then we'll make a suggestion on pilot hole drill so folks can go and get the right drill... and make the right hole.  I dont have screws handy, or I'd do it.  My own personal technique... quick mic on the screw thread, leave the mic where it is, and find the number drill thats the first one to fit between the jaws of the mic... thats the drill I use, pretty much paying no attention to the actual size, only the relative size.

 

[stubhead]

A) Many screws do not need either a 1/16" or 5/64" bit. I have some different sized drill bits between 1/16" and 5/64", the #49 is the best bet for most tuner screws going into maple. If you don't have calipers and/or magnification, you just have to use common sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit_sizes#US_number_and_letter_gauge_drill_bit_sizes

I have a bunch if anybody want to buy one for a buck or something I'd be happy to...

B) For whatever reason(s), Warmoth often includes really, really bad screws with their parts. Maybe they come with the parts, I don't know. I always get better screws for tuners, and bridges. Putting potmetal screws on a $1000+ custom guitar seems nonsensical to me.

Both A and B can be true - they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[-CB-]

#49 = .073  that sounds about right

 

[bpmorton777]

just bought a set of the Gotoh GB7 bass tuners and I think they come with the same crappy screws.  :sad1: thanks for the heads up on this.

Brian

 

[Unwound G]

I posted the warning in this forum for the benefit of our members who are mostly kit builders, especially using Warmoth bodies and necks.  The beauty of these kits is that one could assemble a premium guitar using just ordinary tools.  Ordinary drill bit sets start from #1.5 (1/16) to #6.5 (1/4) with 13 bits graduating from the smallest to the largest.

There is a total of 49 screws in a standard classic Strat (non-vintage pickguard).  Warmoth has most screw holes drilled except pickguard screws, jack plate screws, string tree screw, strap button screws and tuning key screws.  A common drill bit set is all one needs to drill pilot holes for these screws.  One would not anticipate going out and buy an uncommon #49 drill bit just for drilling pilot holes for vintage tuner mounting screws.  This is what this post is all about.......To WARN fellow members on the tendency of these newer screws to snap because these screws DO snap easily as this thread has shown and numerous other major guitar forums of this common complaint.

My hope is that vintage tuner makers will notice from these complaints and make positive changes to the screws supplied.  Gotoh and other vintage parts makers are not exactly Toyota so there is not much chance of a recall but at least our complaints may come to their attention.

Here is a pictorial reason of why these screws snap, apart from the weak metal compound they are made from :-

 

[stubhead]

One would not anticipate going out and buy an uncommon #49 drill bit just for drilling pilot holes for vintage tuner mounting screws.

Well, there I'd disagree... using the right tools for a job matters, and a $1000+ guitar deserves a good attempt. You're not hanging a screen door here. Do you conduct eye surgery with a hammer? Hunt deer with a 2X4... since the right tool in this case can be had for a dollar or two, and you will avoid hours of frustration with a very simple purchase, I personally WOULD "anticipate."  :icon_scratch:

 

[Unwound G]

One would not anticipate going out and buy an uncommon #49 drill bit just for drilling pilot holes for vintage tuner mounting screws.

Well, there I'd disagree... using the right tools for a job matters, and a $1000+ guitar deserves a good attempt. You're not hanging a screen door here. Do you conduct eye surgery with a hammer? Hunt deer with a 2X4... since the right tool in this case can be had for a dollar or two, and you will avoid hours of frustration with a very simple purchase, I personally WOULD "anticipate."  :icon_scratch:

Sure, I agree with you but for those who have read this thread, they will be taking heed.  Generally, no one would anticipate the screw to snap so easily. Also I would not say a tungsten carbide standard set of drill bits is like a hammer doing an eye surgery.

 

[tfarny]

G, I don't understand the antipathy towards this thread - you're just saying, here's a part that sucks, here's what to do to lessen the chance of something bad happening. :icon_thumright: That's one of the main purposes of this board, but these crusty guys seem to be saying you shouldn't build a guitar if you don't already know which specialized drill bit you should use for tuner holes. :dontknow: