Warmoth vs Gibson?

[Robzoid]

I really like the tone of Gibsons, but I don't like them for other reasons (quality control issues, really small frets, etc). I'm looking to do some Gibson-style Warmoth builds (24.75 w/ TOM bridge). For those who own Gibsons and Warmoths with similar specs, is the tone pretty much the same?

 

[Rick]

Depends on what you're looking for, let's start with the pickups. Which ones are you looking at?

 

[Scab Pickens]

For those who own Gibsons and Warmoths with similar specs, is the tone pretty much the same?

The same as what, exactly? This is WAY too open ended of a topic. What are you looking at building, exactly, and what are you comparing it to?

 

[Robzoid]

The same as what, exactly? This is WAY too open ended of a topic. What are you looking at building, exactly, and what are you comparing it to?

I'm looking to build a 24.75 mahogany body/neck Warmoth with a tune-o-matic bridge and PAF humbuckers. This generally matches Gibson specs. I guess the major difference tonally vs Gibson would be set neck vs bolt-on. Just curious for those who have built a Gibson-esque Warmoth, if it sounds like a Gibson or if the Warmoth sounds snappy/fender-y due to the bolt-on.

 

[VanHeGen]

Following this thread with interest, as I would at some stage like to build a more comfortable (contours, weight, etc) Gibson-style guitar (with at least the same woods, probably thinner so towards a Special or SG) with better quality. My expectation is that the only main difference would be the set neck vs a bolt-on neck, but let’s see what the experts here say.
What are your specs, @Robzoid ? Any specific Gibson model that you’d like to ”clone”, or change/improve/personalize?
Getting my popcorn….

 

[Rick]

Hard for me to discern a difference. What dominates is the sound imparted by the scale length. I found the bolt versus glued in to be a myth. Go to a store and try to find a gibson nighthawk, that will help you on your journey.

Also your headline should be how much sound difference does a bolt on neck impart from a neck that's glued in. In my experience a myth.

Subjects could not detect differences in sustain among neck through, set neck and bolt-on neck configurations.

Set neck = better sustain. Myth? | guitar-list

www.guitar-list.com

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

First, the establishment of “what a Gibson sounds like” can be very vauge.
what amp setup?
what voicing?
what genre of music will it be mostly used for?
etc…

 

[triple jim]

I have a Warmoth walnut body with a 24.75" scale maple neck on it, and two PAF style humbuckers, and I think it sounds very much like a Les Paul with PAF type pickups.

 

[VanHeGen]

I have a Warmoth walnut body with a 24.75" scale maple neck on it, and two PAF style humbuckers, and I think it sounds very much like a Les Paul with PAF type pickups.

Which Warmoth body is that @triple jim ?

 

[triple jim]

 

[VanHeGen]

@triple jim - very nice guitar!

 

[Spud]

Hard for me to discern a difference. What dominates is the sound imparted by the scale length. I found the bolt versus glued in to be a myth. Go to a store and try to find a gibson nighthawk, that will help you on your journey.

Also your headline should be how much sound difference does a bolt on neck impart from a neck that's glued in. In my experience a myth.

I have found the opposite to be true. A bolt on has a noticeably more immediate attack than a glued in. YMMV

 

[Strat Avenger]

If the question is "can a Warmoth guitar be made to sound like a Gibson?", the answer is yes.

 

[stultzies9]

I own an older Warmoth Royale build with PAF style pickups. 24.75" scale length, TOM/STP bridge, etc. For all intents and purposes, it's an LP, and even though it's a bolt-on, it absolutely lives in that LP territory. I honestly don't think anyone could tell the difference in a blind listening test. So I'd say if that's what you're looking for, you'll be entirely fine building one.

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

There will be differences in tone for sure. There are a lot more factors that affect tone than just scale length. However the Warmoth is likely to better engineered and more durable, even if it sounds different in some situations.

I think there are two main reasons why the two will not be equivalent in tone:
1) The Warmoth modern construction neck has a steel beam on the fretboard side which makes the neck heavier, more rigid, and brighter sounding.
2) The geometry of a Warmoth body fitted with a 24.75” conversion neck places the bridge pickup further away from the bridge saddles than in most guitars designed with 24.75” scale length. It makes the tone warmer and more bassy.

It seems 1 & 2 above can partially cancel out the differences, but still not exactly match the mids and resonance qualities of the other guitar. My idea is to consider a Warmoth sourced parts-caster as a bolt-on guitar like a Strat / Tele / Superstrat etc. There are about 100,000 different combinations of pickups and electronics, so it should be possible to get almost any tone you want, as long as you don’t expect it to sound exactly like a vintage G**son.

 

[SeattleScotty]

I think Johnny nailed it. A Warmoth isn't going to feel quite the same as a Gibson, but imo that's not a bad thing. In terms of practicality, the LP is probably going to weigh more, which to me is a negative but might not be for you. If so, a Warmoth chambered body will reduce weight significantly. The neck you can get to a wide variety of specs, so that probably wouldn't feel too different. The sound will mostly be influenced by the pickups you install, so just get something voiced the way you like it.

I haven't played a Gibson in a while, but I would put my Mooncaster up against pretty much any of them. Not to mention Gibsons are extremely expensive and not at all worth the price tag. Their headstock issue alone is a disqualifier in my opinion, it's just ridiculous they still have the same issue in 2023. Save your money and get something built the way you want it.

 

[bonesofwrath]

#2 is an improvement

 

[TBurst Std]

Never understood the Gibson hate. As any large mfg, they make some good stuff, but there are duds. Headstock issue? That’s true of any tiltbaclk headstock. I never hear Martin, Gretsch, Guild, Heritage etc.
My 1st good guitar was a 79 LP. It was my bread/butter machine. Still have it till today. It’s largely been put out to stud. When I get the LP itch, I grab my CS R9. Great sounding and playing instrument.
My 79 is suppose to be a boat anchor of a dud. That boat anchor weighs 9 lbs, not the legendary 11-13 lbs all talk about. Remember Fender made duds as well. Remember those late 70 ash Strats that started at 10 lbs and would not quack?

 

[Strat Avenger]

Never understood the Gibson hate. As any large mfg, they make some good stuff, but there are duds. Headstock issue? That’s true of any tiltbaclk headstock. I never hear Martin, Gretsch, Guild, Heritage etc.
My 1st good guitar was a 79 LP. It was my bread/butter machine. Still have it till today. It’s largely been put out to stud. When I get the LP itch, I grab my CS R9. Great sounding and playing instrument.
My 79 is suppose to be a boat anchor of a dud. That boat anchor weighs 9 lbs, not the legendary 11-13 lbs all talk about. Remember Fender made duds as well. Remember those late 70 ash Strats that started at 10 lbs and would not quack?

I don't hate 'em; they're just not my thing. I think the Les Paul is a beautiful guitar, but not really comfortable for me, and the Fender is more versatile for tones if a humbucker is installed at the bridge position. What I love about Warmoth is that I can build what is essentially a Fender guitar to my exact personal taste without having to pay their Custom Shop prices.

A warmoth guitar can absolutely be built to sound like a Gibson. The wood, the bridge, and the pickups are the main ingredients, and to some small extent, scale length.

 

[NedRyerson]

I have a genuine Gibby LP, and I love it. But that love is subjective, of course. My criteria will be different from everyone else's. I have plenty of WM builds and also import kit builds, along with commercial product from other manufacturers. Each have their own unique characteristics in sound and feel. I haven't attempted a WM LP (oh, I'm sorry...a "Regal") because...why? I don't need to replicate the LP that I already have.

But my LP is its own beast, as is every other guitar I own. If I'm not satisfied with the sound of a particular instrument in my collection, chances are that I'm going to tinker with it until it is. That's one of the reasons why we build our own.