Leaderboard

Warmoth Neck Setup Specs?

arc

Newbie
Messages
3
Hi All,
I'm an amatuer builder with a GORGEOUS Warmoth Neck.  The project is going great, and ready for set-up.  When fabricating the nut,what are some rough figures to shoot for action and relief?  Fret size is 6130.  If I'm correct the bridge height sits in the same plane on the guitar as the frets.....
 
If you're asking how deep to cut the nut slots, that's not my area of expertise ('guess I've been too lazy to learn), but as for relief, there should be just a tiny but of forward bow. I don't even use feeler gauges for neck relief -- I just "eyeball" it while pressing on the first and 17th frets at the same time. it Some players like the neck perfectly straight with no forward bow at all. In any case, you never want any back-bow.  

1/16" to 5/64" @ the 12th fret is pretty much Industry Standard for action.
 
Warmoth is a neck manufacturer, not a guitar tech
Set up of a guitar is something a Tech or Luthier does, not the manufacturer of a part of a guitar.
You can get the tools and measuring devices from several places online, and buy a book telling you how to set up a neck. If you come back and say you know how to set up  a neck then I waill come back and ask that if you know how then why do you need info that guys setting up necks know.
get a good book, better yet take a course, get the proper tools, and realize that the answer you need is determined by factors as Fret size. the bridge, neck radius, playing style of the owner, string gauge, etc. and that maybe letting a professional do it may be in hand. Industry standard is a base line, Most guys have a guitar set up to them, not a standard that is just a place to send out a guitar for sales.
Hope this helps
 
arc said:
Hi All,
I'm an amatuer builder with a GORGEOUS Warmoth Neck.  The project is going great, and ready for set-up.  When fabricating the nut,what are some rough figures to shoot for action and relief?  Fret size is 6130.  If I'm correct the bridge height sits in the same plane on the guitar as the frets.....

Did the neck come with a precut nut?  If so the cuts will be on the high side, while the neck will still be playable as is you will notice a huge difference if the slots are cut a bit deeper for a proper set up.  If the nut was not precut then you really should use a string spacing templete to mark the slots.

Initially set up your neck with just a touch of relief, I set mine with about 1/32 at the missle of the neck.  To measure it a use a long t-square that covers the entire length of the neck.

For the nut slots, I like to cut the nut down until there is a 1/32 space between the bottom of the string and the top of the first fret.  You'll need proper nut files to do this.  You want to make sure you have a slight tilt away from the fretboard in the slots.  This give the strings a nice "break".

For the bridge I set it where I get the best action overall.  All three of these adjustments (Relief, nut and bridge) work together; as one is adjusted it can effect the others.

Hope this helps....
 
OK, you might want to copy n' paste somewhere here. You need a full set of feeler gauges from Autozone or Pep Boy or someplace - 25 blades from .004" to .025" gauges, about $7 to $11. Mine's called a "General No. 230".... what you don't want is Stew-Mac's 11 blade ones for $25, they inverted it huh? There's not enough precision available, keep reading.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Measuring_tools/Feeler_Gauges.html

A Few Reviews (not mine):
Tool is fine, and does what it's supposed to, but I'm wondering why I should have paid more than $25 for this 10-blade feeler, when I just picked up a 36-blade feeler that goes all the way down to .002", for $6.99 from Sears?
Great If only the sizes got small enough to check action and relief this would be perfect.
Anyway, bash over. When you get a good set of feeler gauges from the auto supply store, there will be about 25 of them. They're oily, so you want to go through and dry them off with paper towels. I suppose you could use a solvent, but you're basically just trying to get them clean enough to rest on your fretboard.

First you're going to use them to figure out how high your frets really are. We start with the assumption that your frets are at an even-enough height that you're not going to fuss with them for a while, pretty safe with Warmoth (though I do like to fix the fret ends a bit). I'd rather not do a full level/crown/polish until the neck's settled through a seasonal cycle, anyway. Let's say, you think your frets will be about .045" above the fretboard. The nut matters most at the top of the neck, so we're going to measure between frets 1 and 2.
Pick out an ODD number of feeler gauges. To hit .045" you can use the three feelers centered at .015" ----- .014" + .015" + .016" = .045".
OR (this matters) you can use the five feelers centered at .009". ----- .007" + .008" + .009" + .010" + .011" = yay! .045" again.

Can you slide the feeler gauge combination in and out but with a tight fit when you're holding a straightedge over the top of the 1st and 2nd fret? Then you guessed right.

But if you guessed wrong - too tight, or flapping around - this is the reason for the threes vs. fives. Drop the three feeler gauges down to centered around the .014"--- .013" + .014" +.015" = .042"; centered around the .013" = .039". But, drop the five group down a gauge - centered around the .008" now --- .006" + .007" + .008" + .009" + .010" - you get a .040"... and a .007" center X five feelers =.035".

I'm switching to shorthand now. Four blades can be useful too. 10+11+12+13 = 46, 8+9+10+11 = 38. You can use two blades, but they do get stiffer, you have to be sure you're holding things tight - 21+22 = 43, 20+21 = 41.

Though if you want to get really, really fanatic - oh yes - another advantage of fives and fours is there's enough flex to scoot one gauge out of the way. Like, lose the .007" here: add together  .006"+.008"+.009"+.010"+.011 for a FORTY-FOUR.  :headbang: A nice tight fit against the straightedge all you need, easier to do than explain, really.

Now that the fret height is settled (might check a few up the neck, for fun) you use the gauges as a STOP to keep your nut files from EVER getting too low. You add some height to your gauge combination, and hold it dead up against the front edge of the nut. You have to file the slots down towards the tuners, the highest point the string should pass over is right at the front of the nut towards the frets. Though it's not supposed to be a SHARP edge, either - they wear too quick. Just that - obvious - if the string contacts the nut in it's middle, it'll be out-of-tune AND rattle as an annoying reminder that you blew it. It's easy to nick the neck up a bit here - did I mention the part about paying really close attention, because you're using hard tools on soft stuff? There's a whole lot that goes into the shaping of the grooves - round bottoms, they can open a bit wider towards the tuners, GAAAK read Erlewine's stuff, it's all there. Most of my files are not guitar-specific, I just get out all 12 (?) and use what's needed. LMII's "pippen" file is a charmer, and in the cheap sets of 10 miniature needle files on Ebay (plenty good enough for bone) there's one that a flattened triangle with teeth on only the wide side, good for widening grooves without cutting deeper. Jewelers, locksmiths, miniature model people - it's the same stuff.

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Rasps%2FFiles&NameProdHeader=Pippin+File

How much height added? Gibson factory specs for clearance above the first fret are .030" on the low E and low A, .022" for the D and G string, and .015" for the B and high E. Heh - there are reasons the kids walk out of the music store with a PRS or even a Schecter instead....

Dan Erlewine's own specs - what he shoots for - are .015" E, .014" A, .013" D, .012" G, .010" B, and .009" high E. I'd be willing to bet he hits 'em too. You can even take them a bit lower on the treble side - just a frigging hair, like a .007" high E - but with the caveat that the bone will wear and you're going to be replacing the nut every two years. A capo to snap on and off between the 2nd and 3rd fret is quite a help here - just checking, as you will want to do; as is the Stew-Mac tool we DO love, the Amazing String Lifter!
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddles/Special_tools_for:_Nuts_and_saddles/String_Lifter.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=1447

There's obviously going to be a lot of variance in player's preferences due to style. If you're setting up a "rhythm Tele" for cowboy chorders they'll want something quite different than a fusion shreddyboy, which is also different than a jazz box, which... let's just say, you're tenth nut will be better than your first one, and the fortieth better than that. Oh how grand it would be to work backwards and stop in the middle... and as mentioned above, "action" as a whole kinda... seesaws between the nut, bridge, relief and string gauge & type. The way you set up a guitar will change what's enjoyable to play on it, how it sounds, which may change your tastes a bit... well, keep at it.

The biggest, most important tools are your eyes and brain. My fretwork and setups got a whole lot better after I started grinding and regrinding fountain pen nibs, and getting really used to both seeing, and thinking, really, really small. There really are differences in the way a guitar plays when adjusted within 3/1000" of it's life - one quarter the diameter of your B string. At my age of 53, an Optivisor with the #7 lens - 2.75X magnification, and a 10X jeweler's loupe are absolute necessities. I could NOT do it at all without SEEING.... And you will "blow the nut" often enough, and it's a terrible way to try to "relax with your favorite hobby." Goddam little TINY shit....  :icon_scratch: If you're wound up, do NOT touch your nuts, if you're drunk do NOT touch your nuts, if you're tired do NOT... well, you'll see. Buy blanks five at a time.... Read Erlewine's "Guitar Player Repair Guide", over and over and over.
 
I find that a machinist ruler is far more useful for set-ups than feeler gauges.
It's fine to use feeler gauges if you desire, but not really necessary.

 
Street Avenger said:
I find that a machinist ruler is far more useful for set-ups than feeler gauges.
It's fine to use feeler gauges if you desire, but not really necessary.

I can't imagine getting along without both. Besides, for what a set of feelers cost, why suffer?
 
Back
Top