Warmoth Conversion vs 7/8 Necks

[ltwhite]

Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone here could tell me the difference between Warmoth's 7/8 Gibson scale necks versus their Gibson Conversion necks.  I see the picture diagram that they have for the conversion necks, and why you wouldn't have to move anything around, but while going back and forth with a sales rep, I never quite got the answer I was looking for on the 7/8 necks.

The sales rep told me that using a 7/8 neck on a 25.5" guitar, such as a VIP, would result in the guitar never intonating properly, due to the bridge would need to be moved up closer to the neck pocket.  What I don't understand is why this is somehow different from their conversion scale necks.

Are the conversion necks with 22 frets actually physically shorter than the 7/8 necks with 24 frets?  That's about the only thing I can come up with, is that the nut slot on the conversion necks is actually physically closer to the neck pocket than the nut on the 7/8 necks.

What I'd like to do is use a 7/8 neck on a normal body, so I could have better access and playability of the 23rd and 24th frets, and I like that there's less of a diving board on the 7/8 necks than a 24 fret extension on the 25.5 necks.


Is my only real option (from Warmoth) to get a body routed with just a neck pickup, and then do the bridge pickup rout and bridge routing myself?  I asked the sales rep if they were able to do a "reverse 24 fret neck position" and move the bridge pickup towards the neck instead of vice versa, but they said they couldn't do that.  Honestly routing a humbucker and 4 holes for a tune-o-matic bridge doesn't seem like a huge undertaking to achieve the result I'm going for, IF that will work

 

[stratamania]

What I'd like to do is use a 7/8 neck on a normal body, so I could have better access and playability of the 23rd and 24th frets, and I like that there's less of a diving board on the 7/8 necks than a 24 fret extension on the 25.5 necks.

That will not work it will not intonate.

The conversion neck is what it says a 24 3/4" neck designed to retrofit a 25.5 " F type body to give a neck that will intonate on that type of body.

The 7/8 neck, while it is a 24 3/4" scale, is similar to a 25.5" neck with a different scale laid out on it and is designed to fit the 7/8 body. If you put it on a normal body it will be positioned incorrectly to intonate. The bridge would be in the wrong place.

This video also has some explanation which may be of help.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLLBquv-OD4[/youtube]

Why not just get a 7/8 neck and body as an easier option.

 

[rgand]

Stratamania has the right idea. Just get a 7/8 body and neck and be free of any hassle.

If I wanted to do what you're describing, though, I'd get a body with only a neck pocket rout (and maybe control routs, too). Then I'd bolt the neck in it and place the bridge where it would intonate properly with the 7/8 scale neck. You could then locate the pickup routes wherever you wanted them.

Of course, if you're going to do all that work, why not just start with a body blank routed to the 7/8 scale and shape your own design for a body. Then you'd have something that's your own.

 

[Fat Pete]

Are the conversion necks with 22 frets actually physically shorter than the 7/8 necks with 24 frets?  That's about the only thing I can come up with, is that the nut slot on the conversion necks is actually physically closer to the neck pocket than the nut on the 7/8 necks.

This has been thoroughly answered now, but logic had got you to the correct conclusion already.

 

[ltwhite]

Stratamania has the right idea. Just get a 7/8 body and neck and be free of any hassle.

If I wanted to do what you're describing, though, I'd get a body with only a neck pocket rout (and maybe control routs, too). Then I'd bolt the neck in it and place the bridge where it would intonate properly with the 7/8 scale neck. You could then locate the pickup routes wherever you wanted them.

Of course, if you're going to do all that work, why not just start with a body blank routed to the 7/8 scale and shape your own design for a body. Then you'd have something that's your own.

Well the body blank is an idea, but I'm a sucker for figured tops, and I like the finish work that Warmoth does.  And there's no hollowbody options for body blanks Since there seems to be a lot of "Why would you want to do this?"...

A) I don't have a spray booth to do any finish work of any kind B) I'm not a luthier so I'm not going to be doing any of the work C) I don't want a 7/8 Tele or Strat because that's not how a Tele or Strat is "supposed" to sound due to the pickup positioning getting squashed on a 7/8, and I have a strat. D) I do want a Mooncaster, with a nice flamed or quilted maple top, with white binding, and 24 playable frets, and wouldn't you know it, the 7/8 necks are the only 24 fret necks Warmoth offers with binding.

So as I suspected, and thank you for confirming Rgand, I'll just have to get a bridge and have it installed at the 24.75" mark and save the pickup routing for after the neck is bolted on and the bridge is installed

As for having something that's my own, I think a Mooncaster custom fit to a 7/8 Warhead where I can actually play that 24th fret, for a Fender guitar on a Gibson scale length, sounds pretty unique and awesome.  You guys that do all your own finish work, custom plates and all that, I certainly respect it and wish I had the equipment, space, knowledge, and ability to do so, but I am on a slightly different level of 'guitar building' at the moment

 

[rgand]

Well, you won't be disappointed with a Warmoth finish. Their work is top notch. A Mooncaster set up like that will be pretty nice. Looking forward to seeing how it goes together.

 

[ltwhite]

The clear gloss on my VIP is great, I got a Koa cap on that one so I didn't do any colored finishing.  This Mooncaster is basically what I wanted to do for that guitar, but couldn't at the time, and didn't really understand enough about building guitars to realize the idea.  Originally I had asked Warmoth if they could offset the F-holes on my VIP like a Starcaster  

About a year after I got that guitar, I think Fender came back out with the RI Starcasters and Warmoth has, thankfully, kept the Mooncaster body going.  I just need to get one before Warmoth or Fender decides it needs to go  :tard: :sad: :doh:

Let's just hope that day doesn't come lol.



I kind of want to go all out on this one, stained neck shaft, headstock veneer, bound neck.  The main thing I'm after though is a full 24 fret range, and I think the 7/8 necks, for going with a bolt-on type guitar and not being able to do the neck myself, is probably my best bet.  I'd certainly rather have a custom bolt-on neck where the 24th fret is the bottom of the neck pocket, with no diving board of any sort, but I think that'd be a bit out of my budget at the moment, maybe not though.  I do have a beautiful piece of Macassar with Evo frets already on it, radius'd, maybe I should hit up the guy I was taking lessons with and see if we could do a neck  arty07:

 

[stratamania]

Per the OPs point C of how something is going to sound.

A 24 3/4" scale of any type has the frets positioned in exactly the same place. So if you have a 24 fret neck whatever the body is you can not have a neck pickup positioned at that point.

If you adjusted a normal Strat body to position the bridge in the correct place for a 7/8 neck you would end up with something remarkably similar to a 7/8 body but with a slightly longer looking body behind the bridge.

Whether you use a 24 fret 24 3/4" conversion neck on a normal body, or a 7/8 neck on a 7/8 body or create a mash-up of the two with a 24 3/4" scale you will still have a 24 3/4" scale and your frets and neck pickup will only be able to be in the same mathematical places and so there is no advantage sound wise one way or the other. The only way you will achieve a neck pickup in the 24th fret position or close to it is to use a 22 fret conversion neck on a normal Strat body.

 

[Fat Pete]

Per the OPs point C of how something is going to sound.

A 24 3/4" scale of any type has the frets positioned in exactly the same place. So if you have a 24 fret neck whatever the body is you can not have a neck pickup positioned at that point.

If you adjusted a normal Strat body to position the bridge in the correct place for a 7/8 neck you would end up with something remarkably similar to a 7/8 body but with a slightly longer looking body behind the bridge.

Whether you use a 24 fret 24 3/4" conversion neck on a normal body, or a 7/8 neck on a 7/8 body or create a mash-up of the two with a 24 3/4" scale you will still have a 24 3/4" scale and your frets and neck pickup will only be able to be in the same mathematical places and so there is no advantage sound wise one way or the other. The only way you will achieve a neck pickup in the 24th fret position or close to it is to use a 22 fret conversion neck on a normal Strat body.

I think the OP gets this. He doesn't say he feels that the necessary change of pickup positioning is 'wrong' for any guitar, just for his own preferences on a Strat or Tele. Hence the plan to build a Mooncaster.

 

[stratamania]

I did not get as far as Mooncaster. A mooncaster with 24 frets and a Floyd would be something to see. (I have no idea if the OP wants a Floyd)