VIP Setup Challenge...Bridge Very High
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Cactus Jack
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Before I take the guitar into a pro, I'm going wait for my tools to arrive and remeasure everything. One thing that folks have mentioned is neck angle, which got me thinking. The Gotoh 510 bridge requires an angled neck pocket. In fact, per Warmoth the Gotoh requires an angle of 1.5-3* to be cut.
However, there is one aspect that confuses me a bit. First, the site says selecting the Gotoh bridge requires the angled pocket and implies it's accounted for in the build, however, the site also says this is a $10 add on. I'm not sure if the neck pocket is automatically routed if the Gotoh is selected, or if it's an add on which the buyer must select. I'm also not sure which direction the pocket is supposed to be angled, but it sounds like if it's flat or cut greater than 3* an ideal setup can't be achieved without further modification.
More measurements to confirm, but maybe this is part of my issue. I bought the guitar second hand, but it was a custom build. The body and neck were ordered together, the Gotoh was clearly called for, so I hope all the variables were accounted for. Being a rookie setting the guitar up, I'm almost certain I've messed something up along the way, but you never know as there are only so many levers one can pull.
However, there is one aspect that confuses me a bit. First, the site says selecting the Gotoh bridge requires the angled pocket and implies it's accounted for in the build, however, the site also says this is a $10 add on. I'm not sure if the neck pocket is automatically routed if the Gotoh is selected, or if it's an add on which the buyer must select. I'm also not sure which direction the pocket is supposed to be angled, but it sounds like if it's flat or cut greater than 3* an ideal setup can't be achieved without further modification.
More measurements to confirm, but maybe this is part of my issue. I bought the guitar second hand, but it was a custom build. The body and neck were ordered together, the Gotoh was clearly called for, so I hope all the variables were accounted for. Being a rookie setting the guitar up, I'm almost certain I've messed something up along the way, but you never know as there are only so many levers one can pull.
BigSteve22
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You need an angled neck pocket when using that bridge, and yes, it's part and parcel of specking that bridge route. A fretboard that was parallel to the body would not work, because of the height of the bridge itself. The saddles could not be set low enough, and even decking the bridge would not be low enough, to set any kind of a usable action. The angled neck pocket raises the end of the fretboard, and therefore the usable string height above the body, to allow the bridge to sit high enough, to properly set the action.
Cactus Jack
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TBurst Std
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I wish those pics helped, but there’s no reference.
Rather than pics, how about just stats? Like if you were at the ER. BP, pulse, pulseox, etc.
Capo fret 1 and the highest fret you can before neck join (if you don’t have 2 capos, simply finger it) At fret 6
or 7 What’s the distance from top of fret to bottom of string? (This determines relief)
Looking for a reading measured in .xxx of an inch. An auto feeler gauge works well for this. Ideally we want to be .005-.010
Capo fret 2. At fret 1 what is the distance from the top of the fret to the bottom of string? (This offers nut height) again looking for a measurement as .xxx
Capo fret 1. At fret 12 measure the top of the fret to the bottom of the string (This offers action). This you can use your tool in the pic for, but flip it on its side as the measurement should be in 64ths of an inch. (The .05 .06 .07 is too rough a measurement)
Curious have you checked for high frets?
Rather than pics, how about just stats? Like if you were at the ER. BP, pulse, pulseox, etc.
Capo fret 1 and the highest fret you can before neck join (if you don’t have 2 capos, simply finger it) At fret 6
or 7 What’s the distance from top of fret to bottom of string? (This determines relief)
Looking for a reading measured in .xxx of an inch. An auto feeler gauge works well for this. Ideally we want to be .005-.010
Capo fret 2. At fret 1 what is the distance from the top of the fret to the bottom of string? (This offers nut height) again looking for a measurement as .xxx
Capo fret 1. At fret 12 measure the top of the fret to the bottom of the string (This offers action). This you can use your tool in the pic for, but flip it on its side as the measurement should be in 64ths of an inch. (The .05 .06 .07 is too rough a measurement)
Curious have you checked for high frets?
TBurst Std
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If these stats are all within spec, the next thing I would check are 2 fold. (Actually I’d check these items 1st)
Is the neck fully seated in the pocket. Before jumping to a yes, make sure. And to do so we need to verify step 2.
Is there any paint residue in the neck pocket or on the neck heel?
Is the neck fully seated in the pocket. Before jumping to a yes, make sure. And to do so we need to verify step 2.
Is there any paint residue in the neck pocket or on the neck heel?
Cactus Jack
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First two pics show general relief and concave bow.
Next picture shows unfretted string action of the low E at the 12th fret. It measures .07" = 2mm. Fretted at the 1st and 22nd fret string action is .010" = .5mm. Unfretted string action at the 22nd measures .08" = 2.2mm.
Pickup height on the unfretted low E string is set to 5/64"
Next picture shows unfretted string action of the low E at the 12th fret. It measures .07" = 2mm. Fretted at the 1st and 22nd fret string action is .010" = .5mm. Unfretted string action at the 22nd measures .08" = 2.2mm.
Pickup height on the unfretted low E string is set to 5/64"
TBurst Std
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I ask this a neck even slightly off being fully seated and cause the issues you are seeing. It’s been posted here before and it was the slightest of overspray in the neck pocket.
TBurst Std
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Ok but what is the neck relief? Ideally .005- .009 depending on tasteCactus Jack said:
TBurst Std
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Actually I don’t believe any of those
Measurements as per norm. If you could perform them as I noted as that is the norm ways to measure.
Measurements as per norm. If you could perform them as I noted as that is the norm ways to measure.
TBurst Std
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And I’m not trying to be an @ss. Just tying to help you. But to do so we have to work with norm measurements.
Cactus Jack
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I'll pop the neck off this weekend, and also pick up a set of feeler gauges.
For now, I've remeasured following the suggestions in previous posts. Also, I used the fret rocker to check the frets and found all frets were essentially level. Barely, if any, rocking was noticed.
Placed a capo at the 1st fret and the 15 fret, which is the closest to the neck joint I could get. Measuring at the 6th fret my best estimate without feelers is .0157":
With the capo at the 2nd fret the string is laying on the 1st fret with no space:
With the capo at the 1st the string height at the 12th is 1/32 or .0315":
For now, I've remeasured following the suggestions in previous posts. Also, I used the fret rocker to check the frets and found all frets were essentially level. Barely, if any, rocking was noticed.
Placed a capo at the 1st fret and the 15 fret, which is the closest to the neck joint I could get. Measuring at the 6th fret my best estimate without feelers is .0157":
With the capo at the 2nd fret the string is laying on the 1st fret with no space:
With the capo at the 1st the string height at the 12th is 1/32 or .0315":
Cactus Jack
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For other rookies, you may be interested in the setup article below. I'm sure YouTube has great stuff, but I'm still a bit old school and enjoy reading 
.
I've realized guitar setup is a personal matter. I don't like the bridge height, others don't care, some want neck relief, some want a dead straight neck, some like low action while others like high action...the list goes on and on.
My personal assessment of my guitar is I have an opportunity to improve the setup. To get it as dialed as possible I need to do a lot of research and set aside a few hours to tweak things. Again, I'm a rookie here. Even though we're talking fractions of millimeters I'm going to put the time in and do my best. I'll post pics of the results this weekend.
Setup Article:
https://midlifeguitar.com/how-to-do-your-own-guitar-setup/
. I've realized guitar setup is a personal matter. I don't like the bridge height, others don't care, some want neck relief, some want a dead straight neck, some like low action while others like high action...the list goes on and on.
My personal assessment of my guitar is I have an opportunity to improve the setup. To get it as dialed as possible I need to do a lot of research and set aside a few hours to tweak things. Again, I'm a rookie here. Even though we're talking fractions of millimeters I'm going to put the time in and do my best. I'll post pics of the results this weekend.
Setup Article:
https://midlifeguitar.com/how-to-do-your-own-guitar-setup/
TBurst Std
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If you feel comfortable with those measurements, and as you noted, it’s a very personal thing.
My preferences are:
1st measurement was relief. I tend to find my setups are around .006-.007 depending upon Guitar. Yoursseems about twice that
2nd measurement was for the nut. I tend to prefer the smallest amount of space at the 1st fret
3rd measurement was action. Most my guitars run at 3/64 at low E and 2/64 at high e. You seem to be in that area.
I am curious about the outcome of pulling the neck off. I have a sneaking suspicion that the neck isn’t fully seated and/or there is a slight finish over-spray in the pocket. Something as small as 1/32 of an inch could be causing what you are seeing
My preferences are:
1st measurement was relief. I tend to find my setups are around .006-.007 depending upon Guitar. Yoursseems about twice that
2nd measurement was for the nut. I tend to prefer the smallest amount of space at the 1st fret
3rd measurement was action. Most my guitars run at 3/64 at low E and 2/64 at high e. You seem to be in that area.
I am curious about the outcome of pulling the neck off. I have a sneaking suspicion that the neck isn’t fully seated and/or there is a slight finish over-spray in the pocket. Something as small as 1/32 of an inch could be causing what you are seeing
Cactus Jack
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Popped off the neck. It's hard to tell, but the strips of excess finish on the sides were indeed raised. For reference, dragging a pick across the pocket it would snag when it hit the finish. I removed the sticker and carefully cleaned up the finish. While not completely gone I can drag a razer blade across the pocket without a snag.
I need to clean up the screw holes on the neck, but in general it was in good shape.
Finally, I took a few measurements and confirmed the pocket is properly angled, and is relatively flat
Now that the pocket is cleaned up, time to put the neck back on and check the relief and action.
I need to clean up the screw holes on the neck, but in general it was in good shape.
Finally, I took a few measurements and confirmed the pocket is properly angled, and is relatively flat
Now that the pocket is cleaned up, time to put the neck back on and check the relief and action.
stratamania
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To measure neck pocket depth you need to place something straight against the top of the guitar and extending over the neck pocket then measure from the bottom of the neck pocket to the bottom of the edge.
It would be easier to measure on a Strat or Tele as you would measure from the bottom of the neck pocket to the top of the body but on the VIP the sides of the neck pocket are not there at both ends.
In both cases, you need a measurement near the body and then another at the headstock end of the pocket.
If the sticker was still on there and the pocket not cleaned up that will not have helped the fit. Put it back together now and you should have a different result.
It would be easier to measure on a Strat or Tele as you would measure from the bottom of the neck pocket to the top of the body but on the VIP the sides of the neck pocket are not there at both ends.
In both cases, you need a measurement near the body and then another at the headstock end of the pocket.
If the sticker was still on there and the pocket not cleaned up that will not have helped the fit. Put it back together now and you should have a different result.
