VIP Setup Challenge...Bridge Very High

[Cactus Jack]

To setup my VIP properly I need to crank the bridge super high. Currently, it's higher than any other fixed bridge guitar I've ever had. This also forces me to raise the bridge pickup super high. The guitar plays relatively well, but it sure looks silly. Mind you, I'm new to doing my own setups so I may have missed something along the way. Also, the guitar does not have the 720 mod if that matters. Thoughts on how I can improve the setup?

 

[AirCap]

If looks made a guitar play nice and sound good a Telecaster wouldn't even stay in tune.

Seriously, looked at a Les Paul lately? Your bridge height is nothing to worry about, UNLESS it plays badly. Does it? NO? Then play it until your fingers fall off.

 

[stratamania]

You could use an angled neck shim. Stew Mac produce some premade ones for example.

 

[Cactus Jack]

Thanks for the replies. Being a rookie to the setup world I thought I may have missed a beat.

One thing I wanted to try was wiring up a set of Duncan Triple Shot humbucker rings. Because the VIP is actually flat down the middle I can’t used their raised curved set. As such, because the bridge is so high and the bridge humbucker is so high it would look terrible with a flat ring.

Would a neck shim help this? How many degrees would I need to add? Going forward I think the VIP is a perfect candidate for the 720 Mod. I assume that would take of things pretty quick.

 

[Rick]

Did you call customer service?  I've seen worse, but who knows.

 

[Cactus Jack]

Did you call customer service?  I've seen worse, but who knows.

No I haven't? What exactly could they help me with? I suppose for context, this is an older guitar, not new. However, the neck was purchased with the body, has a matching headstock, and I assume the neck pocket and bridge were all designed to work together.

 

[Cagey]

A shim would help, particularly if you want or intend to use one or more of those "Triple-Shot" switching mounting rings. They're short, relatively speaking.

You want to shim the headstock side of the pocket, to bring the headstock forward. I can't tell you which size in degrees is correct - I typically end up buying more than one and experimenting. Keep in mind a couple thinner ones can be stacked to get a steeper angle, if needed. Also, because you'll be shimming backwards of what's normal, you may want to buy the shims with no pre-drilled holes so you can fit them

 

[Rick]

If I see something that looks odd to me, I ask the person that did the repair or made the thing or came up with the idea if that's what they meant. Just my world view.  Barring that, you're stuck with shimming.  Could it be that this was made without the angle mod?  Maybe the body was a second or someone wanted it this way?  I really can't tell.   

 

[Cactus Jack]

Thanks for the insight. I decided to ping Warmoth customer service as suggested, I'll keep folks posted on what they say.

After playing the guitar for a while last night and today, I did notice it goes out of tune quickly. The nut is cut well, very well actually, and tuners are solid, so I'm circling back to the bridge. Could be new strings, but I stretched them pretty well and they've been installed for a few weeks. Thinking back and I realized this guitar has never been super stable. It sure is pretty though! 

 

[rauchman]

Maybe it's the pic, but the 2nd to last pic shows the action.  Maybe it's me, but it looks a smidge high.  Is the relief on the neck set correctly?

 

[Cactus Jack]

The action is a bit high. I believe the relief and nut are dialed. However to eliminate all buzz I had to keep cranking the bridge or else the strings were too low. It’s certainly possible I have a high fret.

 

[BigSteve22]

...Seriously, looked at a Les Paul lately? Your bridge height is nothing to worry about, UNLESS it plays badly.....

I think your set up look fine. As Aircap points out, Les Pauls all have high set bridges. In fact, nearly all carved/arched top guitars, with an angled neck pocket, do. It's necessary because the center of the bridge, even one with a curved bottom, would be touching the guitar top way before the the action was set to what most would consider an acceptable height. The neck angles the strings up and away from the guitar top, so the bridge can be set higher, allowing extra clearance. Keep in mind that the saddle radius still needs to closely match the fretboard radius, regardless of the shape of the guitar top, the higher set allows for the bridge to compensate for this transition.

Now, add to that the design on the Gotoh 510 bridge. Unlike the LP's TOM, it's a wrap around, with the strings feeding through the top, and out the bottom. If the bridge was set too close to the body, you would either have to dismount the bridge to change strings, or chance scratching the hell out of your top every time you did.

On my "CasinoCaster" build, I actually added a .5 degree shim to the neck pocket to increase the angle. Doing so allowed me to set the bridge high enough to allow the strings to pass through the bottom, while still achieving the low action, (~.040" at the 12th fret), I prefer. Take a look at this:

Although the low "E" string sits approx. 21/32", (.656"), above the guitar's top, the bottom of the bridge is still only about 1/4", (.250"), above it. With the relief set to ~.008", this guitar is very comfortable to play, and the P90's have enough available height adjustment to bring them to the proper distance from the strings.

 

[Cactus Jack]

From Warmoth Customer Support:

I'm so sorry to hear that you're experiencing difficulties.

The good news is, everything I’m seeing in the photos points to setup.

The tall humbucker ring at the bridge is of note as it dictates a certain
height with which to set the bridge at. If that were to be shortened or,
a shorter ring employed, you might be able to get the bridge down a touch.

From the one aspect picture provided, it seems as though the action
can still be lowered a touch. Then again, I’m unaware of the relief you’ve
set in the neck as that can be a factor in the overall balance of this as well.

If this gets too frustrating for you, a pro setup could change the entire
landscape for you and set this project off on a successful path.

Either way, I hope that helps.

 

[BigSteve22]

Just as a point of reference, how high is that low E string above the 22nd, and 12th, fret?

 

[AirCap]

How is your truss rod adjusted? Is the neck bowed up, or down? Straight?

 

[Rick]

Do you have a local guitar tech?

 

[Cactus Jack]

I'll take some pics of the measurements posted asap.

 

[AirCap]

He gave up on us, guys. Posted over on the Duncan Forum looking for the answers he likes.

 

[Cactus Jack]

He gave up on us, guys. Posted over on the Duncan Forum looking for the answers he likes.

Huh? You say play it as is, others say shim the neck, others say take it to a pro, Warmoth says my problem is my pickup ring. Other folks have asked for more info, and I've responded that I'll post measurements. Not sure what your problem is. You've made your position clear, which I appreciate it. Please don't feel obligated to contribute to the discussion, but I would appreciate if you wouldn't discourage others from doing so. There's some great content here, I'm learning a lot, and I'm certain other folks will come across this thread and learn something valuable too. Let's keep things positive and add value to the community.

Anyway, I took a looked at the bridges on my Les Pauls and none approximate the VIP. I just ordered a notched straight edge so I can triple check the neck relief. I also sprung for a Fret Guru string height guage to triple check my string height. I'll post measurements soon. Maybe it has less to do with the bridge and more to do with the neck...stay tuned.

Here are pics of a few of my LPs. They are Standards and Traditionals and all play phenomenal well. The bridge heights do vary, but the VIP is much higher than anything else I own. My daughter plays a Washburn Idol and it's bridge is also significantly lower. I must have a setup issue.

 

[stratamania]

There could be a number of things that need setting up all of which are contributing to the higher looking bridge. A shim as I suggested earlier may be a last resort after the other suggested items have been investigated.