Vintage tuners versus new-school locking tuners

[blue313]

Doesn't seem like one.  I think there was another thread about these newer ones recently though.

 

[Mor Paul]

Maybe he's not. Looks like he's at least had an account for a few days.

 

[UTSC]

Tonar, I love your finnishes, I know your a smart guy, I can't believe for a second that tuners either add or subtract from tone, it's a post with the string attached to it in one way or another, weather its locking, 12:1  or 18:1 doesn't matter, all that has to do with is getting to pitch. If theres a reason you feel the way you do please share, cuz I don't get it.

I'll have to agree with Tonar. I had changed only the tuners on one of my guitars and I noticed that the tone of the guitar did change for me. My belief is that it is due to the added mass at the top of the headstock due to the heavier locking tuners.

 

[MUYFUE]

With respect...when you change the tnuers, you usually change strings too right?
I'd venture to say THAT made a much larger difference than the new tuners, if it made a difference.

 

[stubhead]

Headstock mass is quite universally-recognized as a big part of tone*, as is overall neck weight and density. That's the reason there are guitars retro-fitted with a brass plate on the back of the headstock, that's the reason Sadowsky uses specialized tuners, that's the tonal reason that "vintage" truss rods still even exist. The nut string lock paired with a Floyd is a big part of why it sounds the way it does.... Now you know.

*(By people who know things because they've played and built lots of guitars, as opposed to people who just like to argue & emote.) :cool01:

 

[MUYFUE]

I'm not sure why you think I'm arguing. When you change tuners you change strings also, right? If you don't, please let me know. I fully believe that he heard a difference after he changed the tuners. I don't believe however that he really changed "just the tuners" and put old strangs back on.

It was said earlier:

obviously it's a percentage thing. If you have an extra-wide boatneck with Warmoth's double truss rod, the percentage weight change of the tuners will be less than if you have a vintage-rodded standard thin.

That got me thinking.
Allow me to rephrase, Stubby. I think the “sound” of the tuner is overstated.
To accurately compare the tonal effect of only the tuners, you really need to leave everything else alone. Make sense? If you don't, whatever other changes you made are obviously going to influence your sound. This is also a "universally-recognized" fact of guitar tone. If you change more than one thing at a time, it's difficult to truly say how much of any perceived change is associated with each item.

You are digressing if you start to discuss the "tonal reason that "vintage" truss rods still even exist". Any effect the truss rod and locking nut may have on the sound are seperate from any impact the tuners may have. I'm trying to have us isolate JUST the tuners. Do you follow?

But it's ok, I'm not mad atcha, Stubby. I am a bit disappointed.

P.S.  I started my post with "With Respect" I now know that it was too much to ask of you. I expected such condescension from others, but not you.
P.P.S. Post count does not indicate the level of real world experience on the instrument.

 

[Rick]

I was just wondering, what would ned steinberger say about headstock mass?

 

[jackthehack]

I sold my neck with locking tuners because I prefer the tone of the vintage tuners.  The locking tuners seemed darker to me and they weighed more.  I will have to qualify that the sold neck also had a Graphtech nut, which I stopped using in favor of bone. I have not had tuning problems with the vintage style Kluson tuners as long as the bone nut is properly cut.

I will also say that once I started using DeTemple aluminum blocks on my tremolos  strats became extremely easy to tune.  The only problem with the DeTemple stuff is the sticker shock will almost kill you but they will go into any strat that I plan on keeping.  They live up to they hype in my opinion.

??? In the spirit of "all due respect", I think the graphite nut had more to do with it than the tuners? I prefer the PW locking auto trim tuners as they tune very well and I don't have to go find my wire cutters to trim the string ends off. If I'm doing a build that requires vintage style tuners for looks/"vibe", I'll use those. Any tonally differentiation is lost on me, but I did time in the Infantry and played with volume at 11 for many years...

 

[Superlizard]

I was just wondering, what would ned steinberger say about headstock mass?

Yeah, but Steinbergers are ghey.