"Veneer" Fretboards?

[Cagey]

I can certainly understand the aesthetics argument. Lord knows I've bought a number of necks due more to appearance as opposed to what I thought they might sound like. Tonal character is pretty malleable. Appearance, not so much - it's pretty much fixed at build time. But, there does have to be a certain amount of structural integrity, serviceability and stability, and I don't think you get that with a thin-faced neck. I suspect that lesson has already been absorbed into the state of the art, which is why we don't see that construction used with necks.

 

[AllHailDIO]

I can certainly understand the aesthetics argument. Lord knows I've bought a number of necks due more to appearance as opposed to what I thought they might sound like. Tonal character is pretty malleable. Appearance, not so much - it's pretty much fixed at build time. But, there does have to be a certain amount of structural integrity, serviceability and stability, and I don't think you get that with a thin-faced neck. I suspect that lesson has already been absorbed into the state of the art, which is why we don't see that construction used with necks.

Haha yah.  I was like no ebony with my maple build... That'd be brightness overload.  Oooo macassar ebony... Purrty streaks  :laughing7:

Anyway you're probably right. Probably not as stable.  However Musikraft does offer it.  Never had a neck of theirs though.

 

[Cagey]

Ebony on Maple is pretty bright. But, that never bothers me. You can always filter frequencies out that you don't want, but you can't add them in if they're not there to begin with.

 

[Logrinn]

About that whole wood-affecting-tone (acoustically) debate ...

Let's assume that different wood species affect the tone in different ways. Let's assume that necks made of maple are brighter (acoustically) and necks made of mahogany are duller (acoustically) in sound. That would imply that the grain and fibers and cells in the wood is a source behind this. Right?

So why jump to the conclusion that all maple sound a certain way and all mahogany sound a certain way? It's never the same pieces of wood we're comparing.

Take the chechen necks that Warmoth now offers. They're all from the same one physical tree. And even though they look familiar - and different from, say maple - they still all look completely different.
So would they sound the same? Of course not. The grain, the fibers, the cells all align differently. And probably contribute to the sound of the neck. But slightly different.

When I pluck the high g on the b-string (and bend it to a ... mmmm) the tone is sublime. It's the best note I've got on my roasted maple/roasted maple neck. The tone changes in color similar to working a wah pedal. I'm sure the wood is somewhat behind this. But it's not adding anything. It's subtracting! It takes away certain parts of the note frequency spectrum making it change timbre. It sounds killer, but it's no that the wood is really doing anything good here. It's a flaw. It's what acoustic instrument builders are referring to as dead spots. The thing is, that this is my second such neck, and the first one sounded the same, but not quite. So is it the wood in the body that is doing this? Perhaps. Is it a combination of the two? Perhaps. But if I change to another body of the same wood, swamp ash, and another neck again, of the same wood, I'm certain that I wouldn't get exactly that defect. I might get another. That I might find pleasant. But you might not find it so.

Anyhoo ... long tirade about the fact that I'm sure that every piece of would will behave, look and sound differently. And that the wood will not add to the sound, only subtract.

 

[stratamania]

How many violins have ebony boards on maple necks ?

A lot and they dont tend to be too bright.

 

[Cagey]

So why jump to the conclusion that all maple sound a certain way and all mahogany sound a certain way? It's never the same pieces of wood we're comparing.

I agree that in all cases, we're talking about subtractive effects. Also, that even the same wood from the same tree will produce variable results. I think what people are talking about when comparing Maple vs. Mahogany, to use your example, is generalities. Things like density, hardness, elastic modulus, crush strength, etc. are expressed in average values, not absolutes, and fall within a range. The min/max/mean of those things as a group will be different from one species to another, and describe a characteristic performance for that species. The range of values within that group will account for differences in two pieces from the same species.

How many violins have ebony boards on maple necks ?

A lot and they dont tend to be too bright.

No, they don't, but there are also a LOT of other differences between a violin and a guitar. A piano produces its sound by vibrating strings under tension against a wooden sound board/chamber, same with a ukelele or a cello, but you wouldn't compare any of those to a guitar, even though they're all nominally wooden stringed instruments. Which is probably your point, right? An electric guitar is not an acoustic guitar, so while they're both guitars, the same rules don't apply.

 

[stratamania]

Yes that is somewhat my point.

If a violin acoustically sounds sonorous, why would a guitar neck of an electric guitar made of the same materials sound too bright, especially if the woods of the neck possibly contribute less to the tone of an electric than an acoustic.

I have maple necks with ebony boards, and I do not consider them too bright. I also prefer the feel of ebony to rosewood.

These tonewood recipe discussions for electric guitars may be interesting but they need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

That said I have a number of electric guitars and with different woods and they do each have their own character. One is Honduran Mahogany (a late eighties Hamer Chapparal Custom) with an ebony board and that does have a warmth to it with its OBL pickups closer to a Les Paul, than a strat, even though it looks more strat like even though it is a set neck.  So there may also be something to be said for construction methods also.

 

[AllHailDIO]

How many violins have ebony boards on maple necks ?

A lot and they dont tend to be too bright.

Aren't they hollow or semi hollow with extremely short scale?  :icon_tongue:

And oops I should have clarified...  Wasn't talking about the neck.  Maple body  :bananaguitar:

Decided to go with a Wenge neck since I wanted the Ebony.  Figured Wenge will tame some highs at least compared to Bubinga or Padauk. 

Yep there's variation between individual pieces of wood without a fact. I've heard some warm mellow maple necks. Too bad I can't hear the tap tone of each piece of wood used in construction  :laughing7: now that'd be crazy!

 

[stratamania]

How many violins have ebony boards on maple necks ?

A lot and they dont tend to be too bright.

Aren't they hollow or semi hollow with extremely short scale?  :icon_tongue:

And oops I should have clarified...  Wasn't talking about the neck.  Maple body  :bananaguitar:

Decided to go with a Wenge neck since I wanted the Ebony.  Figured Wenge will tame some highs at least compared to Bubinga or Padauk. 

Yep there's variation between individual pieces of wood without a fact. I've heard some warm mellow maple necks. Too bad I can't hear the tap tone of each piece of wood used in construction  :laughing7: now that'd be crazy!

Yes violins are of a hollow construction, but the neck is not. The point being that a maple neck and ebony board is not of itself "bright".

As for scale length, you could also compare cellos and double basses which have a similar method and materials used in construction. These are all acoustic instruments where it could be said the woods of the neck will contribute to the tonal pallette far more than on an electric.

You are putting this on a maple body, if that is solid it may be quite heavy and more likely to contribute to brightness than board choice on a neck.  Wenge certainly looks nice but as you say you are unable to tap the various pieces and so are back to a generality and so forth.

Overall I wish your build success.

 

[AllHailDIO]

How many violins have ebony boards on maple necks ?

A lot and they dont tend to be too bright.

Aren't they hollow or semi hollow with extremely short scale?  :icon_tongue:

And oops I should have clarified...  Wasn't talking about the neck.  Maple body  :bananaguitar:

Decided to go with a Wenge neck since I wanted the Ebony.  Figured Wenge will tame some highs at least compared to Bubinga or Padauk. 

Yep there's variation between individual pieces of wood without a fact. I've heard some warm mellow maple necks. Too bad I can't hear the tap tone of each piece of wood used in construction  :laughing7: now that'd be crazy!

Yes violins are of a hollow construction, but the neck is not. The point being that a maple neck and ebony board is not of itself "bright".

As for scale length, you could also compare cellos and double basses which have a similar method and materials used in construction. These are all acoustic instruments where it could be said the woods of the neck will contribute to the tonal pallette far more than on an electric.

You are putting this on a maple body, if that is solid it may be quite heavy and more likely to contribute to brightness than board choice on a neck.  Wenge certainly looks nice but as you say you are unable to tap the various pieces and so are back to a generality and so forth.

Overall I wish your build success.

Attributes are only distinguishable with comparison and contrast which will reveal the range of an attribute.

First, let's assume we are talking about generalizations regardless of how inconsistent they are... 

Generally maple is brighter than mahogany.  Generally ebony is brighter than rosewood.  Therefore, maple and ebony is a bright combination.  If we were to compare it with various other combinations, it'll still be brighter most of the time.  Therefore, if it's brighter a majority of time then yes, one could establish it is indeed bright sounding.

Just like how you mentioned the maple body would be bright, a neck can be bright too. 

Now the neck has a relationship with the body. If the body is hollow and the scale length is shorter,  the sound won't have the same amount of initial note velocity.  Also, due to increased resonance, certain overtones will be louder and others not as loud, such as higher frequencies.

So a neck can be bright in guitars but not bright in other instruments if the construction and specifications are different. And since we are specifically talking about guitars then we can say maple and ebony necks are bright in guitars.

Lastly,  I think the neck contributes to the tone more than the body if the body construction and bridge type is the same.  Im not saying it's an overwhelming difference but I do think the neck is slightly more prominent totally.  What's the most important factor is the compatability between woods more than the actual woods itself.  That's why I'm so peculiar about what I choose.

Maple body weight won't bother me.  And yes it'll be bright but that was the intention.

 

[stratamania]

Wood in and of itself can't take on a different character dependent on where it is used it doesn't know where it is.

And yes I agree there are generalities that mahogany tends to be warmer than maple and so forth. But even guitars built with traditional combinations of woods and using the same construction do not all sound or feel the same.

But where this thread started was about whether a thin veneer board could be expected to make much difference to the tone. Especially if someone is ordering something sight or sound unseen its unlikely that saying ebony in such a situation will be too bright. Who knows it may or may not be. You would not know till the thing was constructed. Then its all subjective in the end one mans "too bright" is another mans "clarity and character".

 

[AllHailDIO]

Wood in and of itself can't take on a different character dependent on where it is used it doesn't know where it is.

And yes I agree there are generalities that mahogany tends to be warmer than maple and so forth. But even guitars built with traditional combinations of woods and using the same construction do not all sound or feel the same.

But where this thread started was about whether a thin veneer board could be expected to make much difference to the tone. Especially if someone is ordering something sight or sound unseen its unlikely that saying ebony in such a situation will be too bright. Who knows it may or may not be. You would not know till the thing was constructed. Then its all subjective in the end one mans "too bright" is another mans "clarity and character".

This is all very true.  I can agree to that.

People tell me that I'm crazy for going with a Maple body... "Too bright" they say... No... I SHALL CUT THRU WITH UNYIELDING CONVICTION!  :headbang1:

Anyway, back to the main topic.  Most likely, a veneer fretboard would provide an extremely slight change but it was a change that I was considering... IF the price was right.  To elaborate, I would only consider the option if it was free or at most $35; I would find that reasonable.  Other wise, I would not consider it; with that said, its definitely not a deal breaker either. 

They do not offer it but that is not a problem.  I was just curious if it was available. 

 

[dmraco]

Wood in and of itself can't take on a different character dependent on where it is used it doesn't know where it is.

And yes I agree there are generalities that mahogany tends to be warmer than maple and so forth. But even guitars built with traditional combinations of woods and using the same construction do not all sound or feel the same.

But where this thread started was about whether a thin veneer board could be expected to make much difference to the tone. Especially if someone is ordering something sight or sound unseen its unlikely that saying ebony in such a situation will be too bright. Who knows it may or may not be. You would not know till the thing was constructed. Then its all subjective in the end one mans "too bright" is another mans "clarity and character".

This is all very true.  I can agree to that.

People tell me that I'm crazy for going with a Maple body... "Too bright" they say... No... I SHALL CUT THRU WITH UNYIELDING CONVICTION!  :headbang1:

Anyway, back to the main topic.  Most likely, a veneer fretboard would provide an extremely slight change but it was a change that I was considering... IF the price was right.  To elaborate, I would only consider the option if it was free or at most $35; I would find that reasonable.  Other wise, I would not consider it; with that said, its definitely not a deal breaker either. 

They do not offer it but that is not a problem.  I was just curious if it was available.

I had a solid maple tele from warmoth.  I put a duncan '59 in the bridge position and never looked back.  Killer sounding guitar.

 

[stratamania]

Wood in and of itself can't take on a different character dependent on where it is used it doesn't know where it is.

And yes I agree there are generalities that mahogany tends to be warmer than maple and so forth. But even guitars built with traditional combinations of woods and using the same construction do not all sound or feel the same.

But where this thread started was about whether a thin veneer board could be expected to make much difference to the tone. Especially if someone is ordering something sight or sound unseen its unlikely that saying ebony in such a situation will be too bright. Who knows it may or may not be. You would not know till the thing was constructed. Then its all subjective in the end one mans "too bright" is another mans "clarity and character".

This is all very true.  I can agree to that.

Great, as that is all I was getting at all along. I'm just not much of a fan of generalisations and so on being relied upon as absolutes.

 

[musicispeace]

Definitely go with what appeals to you for this particular build. For me, to be frank, I have little interest in the body wood and a lot of interest in the neck wood so I have poplar, alder, and swamp ash as bodies and don't even think about it. Musikraft can do you a veneer rosewood fretboard, may be an extra $25 or maybe more. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the maple body when done. I wonder if it may add focus and tightness in some manner for being so hard. I agree with Cagey about ebony on a maple neck, definitely comes across as crisp or bright. The attack seems quite crisp. I have rediscovered my love of rosewood but I am playing blues songs so it is a nice match for that as it seems to add some roundness to the attack. But go with the materials that appeal to you as it is important to personalize your guitars as you wish. Part of the experience.