Tuning Stability

[stratamania]

If the bridge is not returning to zero position after tremolo usage it might be that the fitting of the tremol-no is not totally aligned.

Good shout, I'll take a look into this. Do you have a tremol-no by any chance?

I do have one but not currently fitted to an instrument.

If you have not seen it this may help. Alignment discussion starts around 12:30

[youtube]https://youtu.be/8-wMuliyXvc[/youtube]

 

[Jaeberith]

If the bridge is not returning to zero position after tremolo usage it might be that the fitting of the tremol-no is not totally aligned.

Good shout, I'll take a look into this. Do you have a tremol-no by any chance?

I do have one but not currently fitted to an instrument.

If you have not seen it this may help. Alignment discussion starts around 12:30

After having done all that and getting it as smooth as possible, the tuning instability still persists - with or without the tremolno.

However, when I activate it and block the trem, I can get the guitar to stay in tune after bending. Does that isolate the issue to the bridge?

 

[Cagey]

Not sure what you're "activating", but if tuning is inconsistent before you block the bridge, then becomes consistent after you block it, then I would make the jump to the conclusion that there's an issue with the bridge :laughing7:

I mentioned taking the Tremel-No out of the equation some posts back, and you mentioned that you did that to no effect. How did you do that? Did you simply adjust it so it no longer should have any effect, or remove the device entirely? Because if you didn't remove it entirely, it could still have an effect.

 

[TBurst Std]

It seems we are only getting bits of info. I'd be glad to call you in the states to talk through this. PM me. I offer this as a Wilky should be easy to set up. I have Bigsby and 6 point trems that don't show the issues you are encountering

 

[Jaeberith]

Not sure what you're "activating", but if tuning is inconsistent before you block the bridge, then becomes consistent after you block it, then I would make the jump to the conclusion that there's an issue with the bridge :laughing7:

I mentioned taking the Tremel-No out of the equation some posts back, and you mentioned that you did that to no effect. How did you do that? Did you simply adjust it so it no longer should have any effect, or remove the device entirely? Because if you didn't remove it entirely, it could still have an effect.

I adjusted it so it would no longer have an effect on the bridge or claw. So I removed the shaft and pin that goes on the block of the bridge, and then loosened the screws that lock the claw onto the claw screws. Therefore, the tremolno has no influence on the bridge. Brought the same results.

But this morning I dabbed some carmex in the nut slots, and I feel as though that  made a slight improvement? Still not cured, but helped somewhat.

When I last changed strings I noticed some 'burrs' or wear in the low e saddle. Is that not unusual for a new bridge?

 

[Cagey]

Yeah, I'd say that's unusual. At least, on a Wilkinson. You can get an inexpensive set of needle files to take care of that. Don't know how long they'll last, but at that price, if you do one job and toss them it'll still be worth it.

Still, that's only one string. You mentioned that they all misbehave. I suppose the one string could pull the whole bridge out, but I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for that to be the fix.

 

[stratamania]

Those

I adjusted it so it would no longer have an effect on the bridge or claw. So I removed the shaft and pin that goes on the block of the bridge, and then loosened the screws that lock the claw onto the claw screws. Therefore, the tremolno has no influence on the bridge. Brought the same results.

Loosening those screws is for fine adjustment when setting up the tremol-no. To take it out of the equation removing the shaft and pin would do it.

However loosening the screws that hold the claw in place is going to allow it to move and probably is resulting in more tuning issues. Tighten them back up and try again.

 

[Jaeberith]

Yeah, I'd say that's unusual. At least, on a Wilkinson. You can get an inexpensive set of needle files to take care of that. Don't know how long they'll last, but at that price, if you do one job and toss them it'll still be worth it.

Still, that's only one string. You mentioned that they all misbehave. I suppose the one string could pull the whole bridge out, but I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for that to be the fix.

See, bending one string knocks it flat, and only that string. The others will be fine, which makes me question the saddles movement when bent/increased tension.

 

[stratamania]

Please provide specific information. Which string?

People can't help if we have to guess what the actual problem is.

 

[Jaeberith]

Please provide specific information. Which string?

People can't help if we have to guess what the actual problem is.

All strings. You bend any string and it goes flat, leaving the others intact.

 

[stratamania]

Please provide specific information. Which string?

People can't help if we have to guess what the actual problem is.

All strings. You bend any string and it goes flat, leaving the others intact.

Please see my earlier post regarding the tremel-no claw. That also needs eliminating as a variable.

 

[fdesalvo]

Given your setup, if your bridge is floating, then incompletely stretched strings are probably the culprit.

 

[Cagey]

I'm starting to think it's all in his fingers.

No matter what chord I play, somehow it's wrong.​

 

[fdesalvo]

I found that guy's fretboard!

 

[Cagey]

It's a Flintstones guitar!

 

[Jaeberith]

I'm starting to think it's all in his fingers.

No matter what chord I play, somehow it's wrong.​

Definitely all in the fingers.

https://instagram.com/p/BIXL7eeDyaO/

(Guitar in question is not in the video.)

 

[Cagey]

Nice little run!

 

[cdub]

I have several "floating trem" guitars. The issues you are having are an incorrect tremel-no setup AND using a nut that hasn't been filed correctly. My first two Warmoth necks had Earvana nuts from Warmoth. Both required filing deeper and wider slots. I did this myself using some double-edged nut files of Japanese manufacture (with the red, yello, blue handles).

I had issues with, and hated the feel of, a Hipshot Tremsetter. The setup is very very precise with any trem stop or stabilizer. I would remove the tremol-no altogether until you're staying in tune without it, then add it and set it back up.

My sure-fire recipe for tuning stability:

1. Quality locking tuners, installed tightly, in tight-fitting holes. I use Hipshot grip lock in the Sperzel drilling plus a few reams...

2. Either a well-cut graph-tech nut that fits tight as hell in the slot and is perfectly squared up, or an LSR roller nut which look futuristic, only come in one width, and only come in one color. Some say it has a tone thing going on too, but it's pretty much negligible. My vote goes to the graph tech and some elbow grease vs shimming the LSR...

3. Quality saddles. Some trems come with the best saddles for that unit (Hipshot Contour, I'm looking at you), others can stand an upgrade. Graph-tech makes a set for the VS100. I have a couple Bladerunners wih Gotoh steel or brass saddles. You get the idea.

4. Heavy strings and 5 springs. I play .011's and use a full set of Raw Vintage springs on every guitar I assemble. I think $20 for a pack of trem springs is highway robbery and am curious about he Fender vintage tension set. For the record, 5 springs is the important part here.

5. New Elixir strings get stretched and re-tuned until pulling on them no longer produces a flattening.

 

[Cagey]

4. Heavy strings and 5 springs. I play .011's and use a full set of Raw Vintage springs on every guitar I assemble. I think $20 for a pack of trem springs is highway robbery and am curious about he Fender vintage tension set. For the record, 5 springs is the important part here. 

Even without heavy strings, I've found 5 springs provide a more reliable return to neutral.

As for different/expensive springs, I strongly suspect they're a waste of money. Wouldn't surprise me a bit to find out the 329 different suppliers of springs all get them from the same 2 or 3 manufacturers, whose QC guys are doing their damnedest to make them all the same so they match spec. Think about it: If any sets they were looser or tighter, you'd probably never get the claw in or out far enough to counterbalance the string tension. I seriously doubt they'd work at all if they weren't all the same, or at least very close to it.

I just moved this weekend, and in the process of putting everything away (or, as much as I've been able to so far), I found a test jig I made a couple/few years ago to check this very thing. Once I get organized and calmed down again, I'm gonna have to revisit that thing. Probably be eye-opening.

 

[stratamania]

1. Quality locking tuners, installed tightly, in tight-fitting holes. I use Hipshot grip lock in the Sperzel drilling plus a few reams...

For reference, Hipshot Griploks fit in the Schaller holes that Warmoth offer very well without reaming or adjustment.

Per nut adjustments, it may be required more or less depending on string gauge used. I see you use 11s, which will require wider slots than say 9s. The most I have had to do is finesse the depth of slot but then I use nothing heavier than a 9 on top.

The important thing about tremolo tuning stability is of course when all is said and done the physics involved.