Tube Manufacturers

[Superlizard]

JJs are quality t00bs, but keep in mind that their typical ECC83/12AX7 (same toob, British/American nomenclature) is
somewhat dark and doesn't have the detail in the top end that some others (and NOS) do.

 

[Superlizard]

Also the truth about "which t00b is best for my amp" is really down to your amp.

A person can really only recommend quality t00bs (longevity) and make suggestions
on tone because just as each amp has a different tone, so does each t00b... e.g.
a NOS Mullard ECC83 will sound vastly different in V1 position as compared to
a JJ ECC83.

So, if you really want to know which t00bs are the best for you, you're
gonna have to try different ones.  I've got a whole box of triple (one for
each preamp t00b socket) 12AX7/ECC83s from current manufacturers
which I tone-tested.  Of course, I eventually shelled out some bucks
for NOS Mullards... seriously, they just don't make 'em like they
used to.

 

[DangerousR6]

If I can't get NOS tubes then I have been using JJ's.
http://www.jj-electronic.sk/

+1 on the JJ's.  I've been through 100s of sets - both preamp and power - and they are the most consistent and reliable.

Reasonably priced as well.

+2 on the JJ's...Much better than Sovtek...

 

[-CB-]

There are a good number of flavors of tubes out there, but... groove tubes only "rebadges" what they can get from the factories.  They make nothing.  Ruby makes only 12AX7's, the rest they rebadge.  Sovtek rebadges lots of stuff but also has a close relationship with Reflektor to the point that the basically run the company (or at least did).  ETc etc etc

There are tube factories in Russia, China, Czech Republic, Serbia, and maybe still one or two others.  Very few really.  All the tubes come from those factories.  Thats it.  To the best of my knowledge, none are made in North America or the UK any more.

Groove tubes "marketing" is that they match tubes to a grade, and that once your amp is set up for that grade, you can re-tube and not have to rebias.  Supposedly they match for both idle current and trans-conductance.

Trans-conductance.... is basically the "slope" of the tube, or how it reacts with varying voltage on its grid in relation to current flow across the plate/cathode.  Think of the line on a graph.  The angle of the line is trans-conductance.  The overall elevation of the line is the idle current.  All of that GREATLY simplified.

Most makers will match for both values, some charge a premium. 

Thats about it.  You'll find that two similar amps will like totally different tubes, especially preamp tubes, and different output tubes when the speakers are different.  There's no "best", only what you like the tone of.  Sort of like strings on yer axe.

 

[Jusatele]

Well CB
to be just as simple, the Bias of the tube, is what you want to get a matched set for so you do not need to rebias that tube, now it seems that different tubes within the class of tube require a different bias, I like keeping my preamps at 75 %. Gives me good life length with good response. But that number is just one I chose and lie with I have read the arguements for higher and lower. Now if you look at the last letter of a, say , 12 ax7  you see a letter that basically is what you are after, it is going to tell you what the match is, so you could match them yourself without having to go into the drival of advertising departments. I have experimented around in my Tube Driver with different classes of the 12ax7 and find small difference in tone, more in distortion than anything else.

I think that a place like tube depot can set you up for a good set of tubes without having to pay the extra 7 bucks most guys charge for a Groove tube

 

[DangerousR6]

Well CB
to be just as simple, the Bias of the tube, is what you want to get a matched set for so you do not need to rebias that tube, now it seems that different tubes within the class of tube require a different bias, I like keeping my preamps at 75 %. Gives me good life length with good response. But that number is just one I chose and lie with I have read the arguements for higher and lower. Now if you look at the last letter of a, say , 12 ax7  you see a letter that basically is what you are after, it is going to tell you what the match is, so you could match them yourself without having to go into the drival of advertising departments. I have experimented around in my Tube Driver with different classes of the 12ax7 and find small difference in tone, more in distortion than anything else.

I think that a place like tube depot can set you up for a good set of tubes without having to pay the extra 7 bucks most guys charge for a Groove tube

Errrrrrrrruuuuuuhhhhhhmmmm, preamp tubes don't need biasing.... :icon_scratch:

 

[Jusatele]

Yes they do, jjust they are usually preset as they are smaller and not normally set close to 100 percent

 

[-CB-]

Well CB
to be just as simple, the Bias of the tube, is what you want to get a matched set for so you do not need to rebias that tube, now it seems that different tubes within the class of tube require a different bias, I like keeping my preamps at 75 %. Gives me good life length with good response. But that number is just one I chose and lie with I have read the arguements for higher and lower. Now if you look at the last letter of a, say , 12 ax7  you see a letter that basically is what you are after, it is going to tell you what the match is, so you could match them yourself without having to go into the drival of advertising departments. I have experimented around in my Tube Driver with different classes of the 12ax7 and find small difference in tone, more in distortion than anything else.

I think that a place like tube depot can set you up for a good set of tubes without having to pay the extra 7 bucks most guys charge for a Groove tube

None of that is true.  Except for Groove Tube output tubes, all output tubes will bias differently. 

Bias is nothing more than an offset in voltage at the control grid.  This voltage is always one that is negative in relation to the cathode of the tube.  Two ways to get there - one is to make the cathode positive to ground, using a resistor, this will give you "cathode bias" and is used in preamp tubes, and results in Class A operation, whereupon the tube is conducting current for the entire waveform of the signal.  Output tubes can also be Class A, but this is limited to smaller amps, mostly because Class A operation results in a high constant current, and larger transformers when used as output.  Remember output tubes are driving current, while preamp tubes, the overall current is quite low, and we're using them as voltage amplifiers (the small current drops voltage across a large resistor).  The other way to bias is to inject a negative voltage onto the signal at the control grid.  This is used on almost all larger wattage (10 or more watts) and results in Class AB operation, whereupon each output tube conducts only part of the signal waveform.  Usually they conduct just over half of the total waveform, so there is just a little overlap, which results in no "crossover" distortion. 

Groove tubes output tubes are matched, but so are many others.  Their concept is to provide grading along with matching, so those who dont want to rebias can continue buying the same grade (on a 1-10 scale) and result in an amp setup that is consistent.

 

[Jusatele]

I disagree

a tube works by the cathode heats up and emits electrons, negatives
we put a positive charge onto a plate and it attracts the electrons. in a very fast and violent way, if that was all a tube was, then the tube would self destruct real fast, burn out
so we set up a grid that we put a negative charge to and that charge is our bias point, how much we set will determine a few factors we will not go into here.
So any tube will be biased if it is turned on, there is a control,
how that is done between small tubes and large tubes is different, but it is done.controling the power to the cathode, or controling the circut of a grid both are biasing, notice that for a tube just to work, it needs to be controlled. let us look at an example where you can get a preamp that has a controllable bias, The Tube Driver. go to the website and you will see that he is now building them with 4 knobs and a bias control circuit if you want. Yes you can set up a circuit to vary the bias of a preamp tube. There are 3 reasons we do not see them in most amps, the first is it would be a major liability to make a it simple for guys to mess with the amp. they can kill themselves, second is the cost it would add to the amp and third is the fact we want this amp to sound such as this or that so we can sell it. So we use the KISS method and everyone is happy. Having been a HAM since I was a teen I started to mess with amps at a young age and noticed that guitar amps have a fixed bias to the preamp, unless you pay someone to put in a control circuit. Well that control circuit is cheap to install IF you know what you are doing, It is a not something I would install in just anyone's amp, For safety reasons.
next, Most guys go and swap out preamp tubes and go buy a set of XXXXXAs or XXXXXCs without looking at the Gaussian Bell Curve or even know what that is, and the match it gives, the believe the marketing prowness of Groove Tubes to tell them that they need some special mojo to match a set of tubes, Well seems that they are also fooling you into looking at the fact that curve is set up in Just 10 increments and it would take an idiot to get it wrong if your last letter matches and the bell curve is matches, you are set. Oh to simplify things that last letter has to do with the properties of the plate system used and is why some tubes sound like this and others like that.
Biasing the preamp tubes will give different sounds to the preamp, and can be done with a varible resister in cathode circuit

matching a set of tubes is by reading a 1 to 10 number

groovetube and others charge huge bucks for the matching, I guess a fool and his money............

LATE EDIT: interesting note here is I could match a set of  12ax7 tubes even if one was a R and one was a C, guys selling matched sets for a 20 dollar premium are only ripping you off, years ago we all knew how to read the GBC and did. I remember when they started marketing matched sets and first time I heard it I laughed, it was ridiculous I figured, but then I knew how to buy a tube, the general public did not and it took hold to now they do not publish the GBC on the tube package and you are stuck unless you have a way to measure them yourself.

 

[Superlizard]

There are a good number of flavors of tubes out there, but... groove tubes only "rebadges" what they can get from the factories.  They make nothing.

GT rebadging aside, technically GT did make at least one tube:  a 6L6GE.

 

[Superlizard]

FWIW, I don't bother with matching tridodes in preamp t00bs.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Groove Tubes quality has gone down hill since they were bought out.  :tard:

I do use balanced preamp tubes in the PI and loops, all others are just regular old run of the mill...

I've really been impressed with the current Tung-Sol RI and JJ ECC803S.

 

[DangerousR6]

Groove Tubes quality has gone down hill since they were bought out.  :tard:

I do use balanced preamp tubes in the PI and loops, all others are just regular old run of the mill...

I've really been impressed with the current Tung-Sol RI and JJ ECC803S.

I swapped out the stock PI 12ax7 for a balanced JJ ECC83S. And the other 12ax7 with a JJ ECC83S and the 12au7 with a JJ ECC82 in my Blackstar and I was amazed at the difference.... :icon_thumright:

 

[Death by Uberschall]

:headbang1:

 

[DangerousR6]

I also have a matched set of JJ E34L's(not EL34's, but same type of tube) I had bought for the VooDoo, might try in the Blackstar when it's time.. :headbang:

 

[Death by Uberschall]

I also have a matched set of JJ E34L's(not EL34's, but same type of tube) I had bought for the VooDoo, might try in the Blackstar when it's time.. :headbang:

The JJ EL34 and E34L are great power tubes. Got them in the Uberschall.  :headbang1:

 

[DangerousR6]

I also have a matched set of JJ E34L's(not EL34's, but same type of tube) I had bought for the VooDoo, might try in the Blackstar when it's time.. :headbang:

The JJ EL34 and E34L are great power tubes. Got them in the Uberschall.  :headbang1:

Any noticeable difference that you can tell between them? My BS has Sovtek EL34's in it currently. I noticed a substantial difference between the E34L's and the Tung Sol 6L6's in the VooDoo. :dontknow:

 

[Cletus]

I heard that Sovtek has ceased production. I really like them in my Rivera amps. I'm trying Winged C's now and they sound very good.

In Soviet Russia, Toobs buy you!

 

[-CB-]

I disagree

a tube works by the cathode heats up and emits electrons, negatives
we put a positive charge onto a plate and it attracts the electrons. in a very fast and violent way, if that was all a tube was, then the tube would self destruct real fast, burn out
so we set up a grid that we put a negative charge to and that charge is our bias point, how much we set will determine a few factors we will not go into here.
So any tube will be biased if it is turned on, there is a control,
how that is done between small tubes and large tubes is different, but it is done.controling the power to the cathode, or controling the circut of a grid both are biasing, notice that for a tube just to work, it needs to be controlled. let us look at an example where you can get a preamp that has a controllable bias, The Tube Driver. go to the website and you will see that he is now building them with 4 knobs and a bias control circuit if you want. Yes you can set up a circuit to vary the bias of a preamp tube. There are 3 reasons we do not see them in most amps, the first is it would be a major liability to make a it simple for guys to mess with the amp. they can kill themselves, second is the cost it would add to the amp and third is the fact we want this amp to sound such as this or that so we can sell it. So we use the KISS method and everyone is happy. Having been a HAM since I was a teen I started to mess with amps at a young age and noticed that guitar amps have a fixed bias to the preamp, unless you pay someone to put in a control circuit. Well that control circuit is cheap to install IF you know what you are doing, It is a not something I would install in just anyone's amp, For safety reasons.
next, Most guys go and swap out preamp tubes and go buy a set of XXXXXAs or XXXXXCs without looking at the Gaussian Bell Curve or even know what that is, and the match it gives, the believe the marketing prowness of Groove Tubes to tell them that they need some special mojo to match a set of tubes, Well seems that they are also fooling you into looking at the fact that curve is set up in Just 10 increments and it would take an idiot to get it wrong if your last letter matches and the bell curve is matches, you are set. Oh to simplify things that last letter has to do with the properties of the plate system used and is why some tubes sound like this and others like that.
Biasing the preamp tubes will give different sounds to the preamp, and can be done with a varible resister in cathode circuit

matching a set of tubes is by reading a 1 to 10 number

groovetube and others charge huge bucks for the matching, I guess a fool and his money............

LATE EDIT: interesting note here is I could match a set of  12ax7 tubes even if one was a R and one was a C, guys selling matched sets for a 20 dollar premium are only ripping you off, years ago we all knew how to read the GBC and did. I remember when they started marketing matched sets and first time I heard it I laughed, it was ridiculous I figured, but then I knew how to buy a tube, the general public did not and it took hold to now they do not publish the GBC on the tube package and you are stuck unless you have a way to measure them yourself.

The above is gibberish.

Common 12AX7 type preamp tubes - since they are always running Class A by design and implementation in audio circuits, are given a bias resulting in about 1.5 to 2 ma current being used, commonly about 1.8ma.  Once the relationship of plate load resistor and cathode resistor is established, its established, and thats that.  Why?  Because if you get a hot tube, that likes to conduct more, the greater conduction results in a greater voltage drop across the cathode resistor, changing the relationship between the cathode and the control grid, and as such, self limiting the conduction.  Class A operation uses the exact same conduction (DC conduction) whether or not there any signal at all, or full signal that drives the tube into saturation.  The DC current stays the same.  Only the voltage swing across the plate load resistor  varies in relation to the change in grid voltage, which is how the tube "amplifies" the signal.  You can have a tiny voltage swing on the grid, and get maybe a 2 volt swing across the plate load resistor.  That varying voltage is AC riding on top of DC. 

Whatever you're trying to suggest with the letter of the tube being part of it bias scheme, is absolute gibberish.

Choose your preamp tubes for their tone - sparkly, dark, "clarity", low noise, whatever.... all due to the many varying aspects of the tube manufacture.  Such aspects... how the filaments are wound (straight, spiral, hybrid, ?), plate length, inter plate distances, cathode / grid distances, plate section and shape, all sorts of stuff.  All make up a tube that sounds differently, but will electrically act the same as and "to spec" 12AX7.

 

[Jusatele]

CB

do as you please, but bottom line is all tubes need to be controled, common word for that is biased

call it what you want but using a resistor on a cathode or a grid on a push pull is all the same thing, and is done on both, you cannot deny that

and for what it is worth, if you would like to experiment, take out the control circut to your preamp and hook the cathode up tp the power supply and see how ling the tube last

Part of the poblem we have today is all the good books about tubes were written before Solid state, and that was several generations ago, now days myth is the best you can get without reading stuff published in the 60s or before.

without using big words a tube is a cathode that you heat to emit negative particles that are attracted to a plate that you charge positive, that is the basic technology of tubes

how you control that flow is how you class a tube, but that flow has to be controled, and that is bottom line,

I am not here to argue with you but you are over your head on this one with me, I started as a teenager in the late 60s building Ham radio's and understand tubes very well. I have more study into that field using tube technology than a lot of guys.

I will stand with that as a way to explain it to laymen, you want figures, go ask someone who wants to argue, I know what I am talking about.

You can get a preamp tube to change characteristic by the bias you give it, and we are not using the same style tube as a power tube.

look at it this way, study the preamp circuit of a tube radio of the 20s that only received morse, then one of the 40s that received voice and then one of the 60s that was receiveing HiFi stereo and you will see a huge difference, that is the bias of the preamp to get the fidelity changes.

and I never said the letter was part of the bias, I said that the characteristic of that tube could be changed by the bias, you are looking to discredit me to hard. I can raise and lower the bias to that cathode and get a mild tube sound pretty hot. that is why the Tube drivers the Big Artist rub have bias circuits in them to make the tubes sound different, Let us look at it real simple, if such was not the case then why would different amps have different circuits? And sound so much different? after all many many modern amps run 12ax7s of some sort.
the only balance of tubes is the number on the scale, 1 through 10, since when do we need some repackageing company to charge us 20 bucks or more to match 2 tubes that came to them with that number on the box?