Treble Bleed; Variants and personal experiences?

[Tretgeraet]

Hallo Leute,
I just finished my telly build and in the wiring kit I bought from Rockinger, they included a treble bleed, in this example a 150k resistor and a 1nF capacitor in parallel, wired between the hot and middle lug of the volume pot.

I really like the effect and decided that my 7/8 S-Style, having only one humbucker and one volume pot, needs something like this, too.

But Rockinger shys away from giving recommendations, stating that the right recipe is depended on personal taste and which pickups and wiring is used and also what else is in the signal chain, like fuzzes, treble boosters, etc.

So, I'm going to have to experiment, but also, I'm asking you if anyone of you has personal experiences and/or preferences regarding treble bleed.

The guitar in question has a Seymour Duncan '78 model (low to medium output AlNiCo 2 humbucker) and a 500k volume pot. I use it mainly to play Metal, but I also play a huge variety of styles and strive for maximum versatility, as Aaron would call it. I hope everyone here knows what that means.

Any experiences? Any recommendations?

 

[stratamania]

You can see the values I use in the diagram in the below post. Basically the same.

Post in thread 'The Mystical Mahogany Build...'

Aug 4, 2021

Without further ado... an update with the treble bleed shown and a couple of minor tweaks.

WiringUpdate by stratamania, on Flickr

• stratamania

If a treble bleed works, then that is about the only thing it is going to do. Don't overthink it.

 

[aarontunes]

The guitar in question has a Seymour Duncan '78 model (low to medium output AlNiCo 2 humbucker) and a 500k volume pot. I use it mainly to play Metal, but I also play a huge variety of styles and strive for maximum versatility, as Aaron would call it. I hope everyone here knows what that means.

You, sir, are a man of intelligence and taste.

I really like treble bleeds. I've tried some that are fantastic, and some that were really awful. My two favorites are:

The one that comes on PRS pots found here, which are also my favorite pots in the whole world. They are stupidly expensive, and I know people claim they are just rebranded Bournes with a massive pricetag, but I've never found any other pots with such a perfect sweep, and the treble bleed is likewise perfect.

The other one I like is the mojotone one here.

 

[Tretgeraet]

Ok, now we have all 3 treble bleed variants I already heard of before:

1nF parallel with 150k (Rockinger / Stratamania)

470pF parallel with 220k (Mojotone)

180pF without parallel resistor (PRS)

I understand the basic principal of the capacitor being a frequency dependent resistor and I think I understand the parallel resistor is meant to counteract the sound getting too shrill at low volumes.

What I don't understand is, why the capacitor values are so much higher, when there's a parallel resistor.

And yes, this might be overthinking it, but it's also fun. I like to understand things.

 

[Don O]

I use 150K and 1,000pf (1 nf) in my builds.

 

[ragamuffin]

I've been using variable/adjustable treble bleed circuits in my builds like this one on Reverb

Basically it's got a little trim pot so you can adjust how much treble bleed you're getting

 

[aarontunes]

And yes, this might be overthinking it, but it's also fun. I like to understand things.

Don't make me regret what I said before.

 

[Tretgeraet]

I use 150K and 1,000pf (1 nf) in my builds.

View attachment 65755

Thank you, that's an awesome build (or wuilt?) you did there btw!!!

 

[JohnnyHardtail]

1nF is a large value in the context of treble bleeds, which tends to be used for Telecasters. You could keep a similar circuit and swap it for 680pF, which makes it closer to what Suhr put in their guitars.

Ibanez sometimes use 330pF, but with no parrallel resistor and that is a very noticeable effect IMO.

 

[Hagwood]

I always use the MojoTone (220K resistor in parallel with a 471pf cap) since I already order all my pots from them (modified CTS). Have always been very happy with them.

Volume Mod for Guitars

Keep more of your tone! This is a 220K resistor in parallel with a 471pf capacitor. The capacitor acts as a treble bleed to preserve high end frequencies, while the resistor improves the taper when rolling back your volume potentiometer.We use these in many of our pre-wired guitar...

mojotone.com

 

[rockandroller]

I like the Kinman treble bleed myself, but there are many others to consider...

Treble Bleed Mod Round-up – DrKevGuitar.com

 

[Spud]

Q-Filter

The Q-filter is a noisefree inductor with exceptionally low resistance, encased in a 1” cube for easy installation, that is used on the tone control to reduce the impedance of the pickup overall or only in the highs. A traditional tone control uses a capacitor to preserve lower frequencies while...

www.wildepickups.com

 

[Tretgeraet]

Q-Filter

The Q-filter is a noisefree inductor with exceptionally low resistance, encased in a 1” cube for easy installation, that is used on the tone control to reduce the impedance of the pickup overall or only in the highs. A traditional tone control uses a capacitor to preserve lower frequencies while...

www.wildepickups.com

I found that a little hard to read, but... isn't that for tone pots?

I mean... ...

7/8 S-Style, having only one humbucker and one volume pot

 

[stratamania]

And yes, this might be overthinking it, but it's also fun. I like to understand things.

I explained some of this in an earlier post, there are also some links in that post should you wish to dig deeper.

Post in thread 'The Mystical Mahogany Build...'

Aug 16, 2021

A few things to answer here so I have unpacked it to separate things out.

Are those active pickups?

No they are passive. the pickup types are mentioned above each pickup - remember it is a diagram and each symbol is not meant to be totally exact like a photo.

(I have active pickups in other guitars by the way)

Is that the little black boxes with red wire going to the pickups?

The red and white wires are going to a black rectangle - it represents that the series link wires of each humbucker are joined together and the black symbol you could think of as the join with...

• stratamania

• 

 

[Rick]

For humnbuckers i do what prs does. For strat i use dimarzio s method. I can't remember the values but it works. Teles i do without.

 

[supertruper1988]

I used to use the Fender ones from the American pro series. But through experimentation, I found that simply changing the tone to be connected like vintage Gibson wiring on the center output lug instead of the hot from the pickup/switch it achieved a similar effect for me.

 

[Don O]

Thank you, that's an awesome build (or wuilt?) you did there btw!!!

The “Wuilt” is a play on Purple Quilt, I name all my Warmoth builds with a “W” in the name.

 

[PFDarkside]

Ok, now we have all 3 treble bleed variants I already heard of before:

1nF parallel with 150k (Rockinger / Stratamania)

470pF parallel with 220k (Mojotone)

180pF without parallel resistor (PRS)

I understand the basic principal of the capacitor being a frequency dependent resistor and I think I understand the parallel resistor is meant to counteract the sound getting too shrill at low volumes.

What I don't understand is, why the capacitor values are so much higher, when there's a parallel resistor.

And yes, this might be overthinking it, but it's also fun. I like to understand things.

You need to also learn about the Kinman series treble bleed.

 

[Tretgeraet]

You need to also learn about the Kinman series treble bleed.

Googling for the treble bleed of the man and his kin ("kinman treble bleed") led to an interesting article:
https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/latest-updates/3-popular-treble-bleed-mods-what-you-need-to-know

Maybe I will use the kinman variant on my purple guitar and the prs/simple/cap only variant on the 7/8 S-Style.

Thanks for all the input, my only "experience" with treble bleed apart from the tele wiring kit was with my Gibson-made Kramer Gunstar, which has treble bleed caps, but also linear volume pots... so I could never make much use out of them.

I will keep you all updated about my findings.

 

[PFDarkside]

Googling for the treble bleed of the man and his kin ("kinman treble bleed") led to an interesting article:
https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/latest-updates/3-popular-treble-bleed-mods-what-you-need-to-know

Maybe I will use the kinman variant on my purple guitar and the prs/simple/cap only variant on the 7/8 S-Style.

Thanks for all the input, my only "experience" with treble bleed apart from the tele wiring kit was with my Gibson-made Kramer Gunstar, which has treble bleed caps, but also linear volume pots... so I could never make much use out of them.

I will keep you all updated about my findings.

I had grandiose plans to try them all out with different values but then life happened and I just ran with the small cap alone. I am certain the others are better though!