Thinline Tele Build - Bridge Options Question - TOM vs. Fixed Bridge

[teleme01]

https://warmoth.com/index.php/t-7773-21052

another
yes to rerouting and the bridge pickup reroute allows for single tele or humbucker tele

 

[TBurst Std]

Personally, I found PRails bland. Trying to do too much while doing no 1 thing well.

You say you have a Strat with Fralins. I am trusting that’s a S S S configuration. I’m also going to trust you have their steel backplate on that bridge pup.  That will cover 80% of a Tele bridge pup tone.

No need to cover that tone, you already got it.

So you mentioned humbucker. Which humbucker tone are you after? PAF? Hot PAF, shred, jazz, Tron?

As far as P90s. Not a one trick pony by any means.  The PAF was an attempt to create P90 tone without hum.

Keep in mind how a pickup is designed is as important as how many coils it has.

It would be helpful if you could identify songs where you hear the time you desire (doesn’t have to be the style or type of music).

I say this (until Jeff Beck releases something new), pretty much every tone  out there has been recorded.  If you haven’t heard it recorded it’s probably not possible.

 

[Ozopart]

Personally, I found PRails bland. Trying to do too much while doing no 1 thing well.

You say you have a Strat with Fralins. I am trusting that’s a S S S configuration. I’m also going to trust you have their steel backplate on that bridge pup.  That will cover 80% of a Tele bridge pup tone.

No need to cover that tone, you already got it.

So you mentioned humbucker. Which humbucker tone are you after? PAF? Hot PAF, shred, jazz, Tron?

As far as P90s. Not a one trick pony by any means.  The PAF was an attempt to create P90 tone without hum.

Keep in mind how a pickup is designed is as important as how many coils it has.

It would be helpful if you could identify songs where you hear the time you desire (doesn’t have to be the style or type of music).

I say this (until Jeff Beck releases something new), pretty much every tone  out there has been recorded.  If you haven’t heard it recorded it’s probably not possible.

Yes, it is SSS - Neck and Middle are the Vintage Hot pickups, and the Bridge is Steel Pole 43. I have a blender pot on the Tone Pot 2, and Tone Pot 1 is Master Tone. I am very happy with this setup so as you say, no need to replicate it with this next build.
Honestly, I don't know enough yet to answer your question as to which humbucker tone.
Not sure if you know these artists/songs, but I will provide a few examples of songs with tone I like, and/or artists I like.
(1) Most anything from the Lucinda Williams album Car Wheels on a Gravel Road. Gorf Murlix is the guitarist.
(2) Tab Benoit, specifically his tone on the Nice and Warm album, and even more specifically on the song Nice and Warm
(3) David Grissom - anything by him, but a good example would be Letter to L.A. on the Live at Liberty Lunch album. (I know he uses humuckers but they are designed for him on his PRS artist model guitar.
(4) Not trying to replicate this but I really like the sounds Pete Townsend gets on the song However Much I Booze. I can't figure out how he gets does it.
(5) For a complete 180, may he rest in peace, I love John Abercrombie. His stuff with Billy Cobham is great (Crosswind is a great example), and I used to see him in Greenwich Village in NYC during the early 1970's with Rick Laird at a small club playing more hollow body "acoustic" type stuff.
(6) Tommy Bolin (RIP) on Billy Cobham's Spectrum album (Red Baron)
(7) The guitar on the Stone Temple Pilot album Core
(8) Frank Zappa (Watermelon on Easter Hay) - love it but I can't even imagine getting his tone, I just like listening to Zappa, also of course his solo on Inca Roads
(9) As a former Dead Head, back in my earlier life when I had my Tele from sometime in the 50's (original with a Twin Reverb), I enjoy Jerry's sound on everything but Althea is a good example.
(10) Robbie Robertson from The Last Waltz. I love his tone and playing on that "album"
(11) Robin Trower - Daydream and basically anything he has ever done. I like Cerdes from the first Procol Harum album. How he got that tone is an interesting story.
(12) Larry Coryell (RIP) - Foreplay
(13) Mick Ralphs - Born Under a Bad Sign
(14) Eddy Shaver (RIP) - Thunderbird
(15) and finally, yes, anything Jeff Beck has ever done, and anything that Roy Buchanan has ever done.
That is a very diverse sample of what I like, but specifically in terms of tone I would say the first three bullet points, plus (10) , (11) and (14) are the best examples. To get the tone of artists like Larry Coryell and John Abercrombie you really are looking at very different equipment.
Not sure if this helps. And I truly don't expect to get all of this in one guitar and/or amp.

 

[teleme01]

Personally, I found PRails bland. Trying to do too much while doing no 1 thing well.   

i agree with prails comment,  perhaps the triple threat would be better with other humbuckers, and im not totally sold on triple shot,    the switches dont seem durable for the long term.  that said,  they work fine and do the job,

 

[TBurst Std]

Give me some time to listen, but 11, 13 and the JB portion of 15 (unless you are referencing early stuff) you already got handled with your strat

 

[stratamania]

One thing to bear in mind if having a body over routed from the showcase is as  follows.

When the traditional Tele pickup route is modified to a humbucker route, you end up with just a small bit that doesn't get cut. You can see it in this pic on the bridge side of the cavity...

That little bit that doesn't get cut is just barely visible once you put a mounting ring on there. If you hard-mount the pickup to the body without a ring, the flaw is obvious. I think on that guitar, I had Doug make me a custom ring with slightly deeper frame sides, so you can't see it at all.

Also, that neck pickup cavity was recut from a tradional Tele neck pickup to accommodate a Strat pickup, and you can see it's wider than both the original cavities as well as the humbucker cavity.

In terms of an over routed bridge humbucker part of what was the Tele Bridge will not be totally hidden by a pickup ring. Using the Gotoh Humbucker Tele bridge would cover it.

Over rout of Neck pickup...humbucker ring would cover things.

Not a stupid question at all. Welcome to the forum!

If you're buying a showcase body that's already routed for a standard Tele neck pup, they will rout for a humbucker and you'll be able to choose between the 2.

If you're having a custom build it might not be so simple. The (not necessarily exact) drawing below should explain why.

Maybe Warmoth would rout for 'both' if you asked them - if so, you might as well go for Strat + humbucker to give you even more options.

 

[Ozopart]

One thing to bear in mind if having a body over routed from the showcase is as  follows.

When the traditional Tele pickup route is modified to a humbucker route, you end up with just a small bit that doesn't get cut. You can see it in this pic on the bridge side of the cavity...

That little bit that doesn't get cut is just barely visible once you put a mounting ring on there. If you hard-mount the pickup to the body without a ring, the flaw is obvious. I think on that guitar, I had Doug make me a custom ring with slightly deeper frame sides, so you can't see it at all.

Also, that neck pickup cavity was recut from a tradional Tele neck pickup to accommodate a Strat pickup, and you can see it's wider than both the original cavities as well as the humbucker cavity.

In terms of an over routed bridge humbucker part of what was the Tele Bridge will not be totally hidden by a pickup ring. Using the Gotoh Humbucker Tele bridge would cover it.

Over rout of Neck pickup...humbucker ring would cover things.

Not a stupid question at all. Welcome to the forum!

If you're buying a showcase body that's already routed for a standard Tele neck pup, they will rout for a humbucker and you'll be able to choose between the 2.

If you're having a custom build it might not be so simple. The (not necessarily exact) drawing below should explain why.

Maybe Warmoth would rout for 'both' if you asked them - if so, you might as well go for Strat + humbucker to give you even more options.

I appreciated the recommendation from teleme01 but honestly I didn't see it as a good option due to it not really being a cost savings over the body I have built. With the information you provided here I for sure won't go that route. At this point the only decision I haven't made is whether to finish the body myself or have Warmoth do it in Clear. I wish I could see what a Swamp Ash tele finished in Clear by Warmoth looks like. On the site it just looks like bare wood. I am sure that isn't accurate.

 

[stratamania]

Try a search via Google for teles of that type of clear ash etc. look at manufacturer sites.

 

[teleme01]

my bad,  i had not downloaded your build design, now that i have,  your build looks great,  i wouldnt route for strat neck (15),  the 22nd fret overlaps the small gap of using a strat neck on a tele, and routed for tele allows you to use both neck options, so you could later change to a tele neck,  just more versitile and saves 15

nothing i have built looks like stratamanias build,  i am more of a shovel philosophy guitar guy,  i never shine my shovels like that,  definitely dont ask my advice on finishing,  and even then,  is it worth having the minor blemish in order to have more options?

 

[Ozopart]

my bad,  i had not downloaded your build design, now that i have,  your build looks great,  i wouldnt route for strat neck (15),  the 22nd fret overlaps the small gap of using a strat neck on a tele, and routed for tele allows you to use both neck options, so you could later change to a tele neck,  just more versitile and saves 15

nothing i have built looks like stratamanias build,  i am more of a shovel philosophy guitar guy,  i never shine my shovels like that,  definitely dont ask my advice on finishing,  and even then,  is it worth having the minor blemish in order to have more options?

So you are saying that with a strat neck in a tele pocket, the part of the fretboard below the 22nd fret will cover the openings in the bottom corners of the neck pocket? If so, getting a tele neck pocket would be better. More options for the future in terms of necks then.
On finishing, part of me wants the challenge and learning experience of finishing myself, and part says get it finished and have it ready for final assemply when it arrives.

 

[stratamania]

See this post earlier in the thread. Strat and Tele neck pockets were mentioned there with a link for more information on it. Keep up folks  :icon_thumright:


https://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=33632.msg466242#msg466242

 

[Ozopart]

See this post earlier in the thread. Strat and Tele neck pockets were mentioned there with a link for more information on it. Keep up folks  :icon_thumright:


https://www.unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=33632.msg466242#msg466242

I do remember that, I just wasn't aware that a Strat neck in a Tele pocket wouldn't show a gap/opening in each bottom corner. I just assumed it would show the gap and that wouldn't look good. If the gap is covered by the fretboard then going with a Tele neck pocket makes sense to me.

 

[teleme01]

you can use a mooncaster neck on a tele,  but you may create neck dive,  i dont know what the right ratio weight wise would be,  if you have a real light body,  you may want to use a tele neck...  would make more sence to route a strat body with a tele neck pocket.  ok, ok,  im crawling back into the box.

 

[Ozopart]

Probably a dumb question but I am now considering using LP control setup with the rear rout and wondering how you get the wiring to the toggle switch on the horn. I assume there is a cavity routed in the body to pass the wire through but can't find anything explaining how it is done on the internet. I have reviewed lots of wiring diagrams and understand the wiring aspect but am not clear as to how the wiring gets from the volume/tone controls to the toggle switch on the horn.

 

[teleme01]

https://warmoth.com/index.php/t-7810-21406  that should answer that question