Thinline Tele Build - Bridge Options Question - TOM vs. Fixed Bridge

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,453
Perhaps this one.

https://warmoth.com/index.php/hardware/guitar-bridges/fixed-bridges/narrow-spaced-strat-flat-mount-bridge

Or maybe a short bridge for Tele.

https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/bridges-and-tailpieces/bridges-and-tailpieces-for-electric-guitar/non-trem-bridges/short-bridge-for-tele/

The pickguard on the 2014 build, is it really seven years ago...was a Warmoth tortoise but you don't need a pickguard with a Tripleshot ring, though they could be made to work together.

You could use a 4 way switch like I have on that Tele build and also be able to get both pickups together in series.

Or get a Freeway 3B3-01 switch which looks like a 3 way blade but will give you bridge, bridge & neck, neck and in addition both pickups in series in phase, in series out of phase, and in parallel out of phase. That will give you with a pair of P-Rails with triple shots 72 pickup combinations. You did say you wanted versatile!!!!

You would end up with something like this but with P-Rails. Though with the Freeway 3B3-01 you would not need any push pulls with the triple shots.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcY5rpRkHT0
[/youtube]
 

Ozopart

Senior member
Messages
127
stratamania said:
Perhaps this one.

https://warmoth.com/index.php/hardware/guitar-bridges/fixed-bridges/narrow-spaced-strat-flat-mount-bridge

Or maybe a short bridge for Tele.

https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/bridges-and-tailpieces/bridges-and-tailpieces-for-electric-guitar/non-trem-bridges/short-bridge-for-tele/

The pickguard on the 2014 build, is it really seven years ago...was a Warmoth tortoise but you don't need a pickguard with a Tripleshot ring, though they could be made to work together.

You could use a 4 way switch like I have on that Tele build and also be able to get both pickups together in series.

Or get a Freeway 3B3-01 switch which looks like a 3 way blade but will give you bridge, bridge & neck, neck and in addition both pickups in series in phase, in series out of phase, and in parallel out of phase. That will give you with a pair of P-Rails with triple shots 72 pickup combinations. You did say you wanted versatile!!!!

You would end up with something like this but with P-Rails. Though with the Freeway 3B3-01 you would not need any push pulls with the triple shots.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcY5rpRkHT0
[/youtube]
I like the look of the Stewmac bridge. Any pros and cons for one over the other, other than I believe the Stewmac bridge would allow for a non humbucker pickup? But if my pickup rout is for Humbucker I probably don't need that versatility. If I do go with bridge from Stewmac which hardtail bridge rout would I specify with Warmoth?
As to the switch, I searched for it on Stewmac but found only these two, would one of these be what you are talking about, or is one OK? Free-Way 3-Way/6-Position Pickup Switch (Item #2057), or Free-Way 5-Way/10-Position Pickup Switch (Item # 2058). Otherwise it looks like Vision Guitar has the Freeway 3B3-01. I haven't purchased from them before but they are a recommended dealer on Free-Way's website so they should be OK. I like the versatility of the Freeway as you said so I am good with that. It means I need to solder/wire the whole control plate assembly myself and not get a pre-wired one, but I am fine with that. It will be a learning experience. So with the Freeway switch I just would need to buy 2 500 pots, a capacitor (not sure what size but I am sure when I buy the switch and pots they can tell me), and knobs. Anyway, SD and Free-Way have schematics so I should be able to figure it out from there. Last thing is I am a bit confused on the output jack. If I get 7/8 routing I believe my options are square, football, or electrosocket. So if I go with electrosocket I don't need a plate? Or if I go with football I need a 1/4" output jack?
Thanks again. I think I am close to completing the order. Then it is the wait.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,453
Check the dimensions and hole sizes of the bridges versus the bridge routs https://warmoth.com/guitar-bridge-routs. I suspect the vintage tele rout.

As for pros and cons it is a choice and subjective.

The switch I mean is as I stated the Freeway 3B3-01  https://www.freewayswitch.com/products/

If I get 7/8 routing I believe my options are square, football, or electrosocket. So if I go with electrosocket I don't need a plate? Or if I go with football I need a 1/4" output jack?

The options you mention are what is listed in the body builder but a football jack would still work.

If you have 7/8 for the output jack either use and electrosocket which Warmoth sells including a 1/4" jack or use a 1/4" output jack and a plate. As I mentioned before some square plates are too big dimensionally for the side of some bodies, perhaps the one Warmoth sells is a good fit but you could order a football shape in addition and then you have a choice.

https://warmoth.com/hardware/parts/jacks-jackplates
 

Ozopart

Senior member
Messages
127
stratamania said:
Check the dimensions and hole sizes of the bridges versus the bridge routs https://warmoth.com/guitar-bridge-routs. I suspect the vintage tele rout.

As for pros and cons it is a choice and subjective.

The switch I mean is as I stated the Freeway 3B3-01  https://www.freewayswitch.com/products/

If I get 7/8 routing I believe my options are square, football, or electrosocket. So if I go with electrosocket I don't need a plate? Or if I go with football I need a 1/4" output jack?

The options you mention are what is listed in the body builder but a football jack would still work.

If you have 7/8 for the output jack either use and electrosocket which Warmoth sells including a 1/4" jack or use a 1/4" output jack and a plate. As I mentioned before some square plates are too big dimensionally for the side of some bodies, perhaps the one Warmoth sells is a good fit but you could order a football shape in addition and then you have a choice.

https://warmoth.com/hardware/parts/jacks-jackplates
I have communicated with Seymour Duncan support and Free-Way support. It seems that I can use the P-Rails Triple Shot with 500K pots without using push/push pots, but rather "normal" pots. I am waiting to hear back from Vision Guitar as to the parts needed for the full control plate build. The only issue I see is whether the 3B3-01 switch fits cleanly in the opening of a standard tele control plate. I see Callaham has one that looks nice and might work better but I will wait to hear from Vision Guitar on that aspect of things.
I think I am going to go with the electrosocket and 1/4 in output but also order a football plate as you say. Can't hurt to have it and it isn't costly.
As to the bridge I am going to go with the Narrow Tele bridge from Warmoth. As to how to setup the body holes, vintage vs. modern, I will just confirm that with Warmoth on the phone when I place my order.
In terms of inalizing my specs for the order the only remaining item I am still ruminating on is whether to go with swamp ash, roasted swamp ash, or maybe even Black Korina. Still going back and forth on that. And on that note, whether to go with a pickguard or not, and if so whether to go with black or pearl. I see both colors used a lot on lighter "brown" telecasters. Once I choose the color I will likely order one anyway so I can decide later whether I want to use it or not. I am leaning towards black, but still undecided.
Thanks for your continued support. I am enjoying learning and appreciate the help. I wouldn't have known about the Free-Way switch, or the versatility of the P-Rails without your help. Cheers!
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,453
Ozopart said:
I have communicated with Seymour Duncan support and Free-Way support. It seems that I can use the P-Rails Triple Shot with 500K pots without using push/push pots, but rather "normal" pots. I am waiting to hear back from Vision Guitar as to the parts needed for the full control plate build. The only issue I see is whether the 3B3-01 switch fits cleanly in the opening of a standard tele control plate. I see Callaham has one that looks nice and might work better but I will wait to hear from Vision Guitar on that aspect of things.
I think I am going to go with the electrosocket and 1/4 in output but also order a football plate as you say. Can't hurt to have it and it isn't costly.
As to the bridge I am going to go with the Narrow Tele bridge from Warmoth. As to how to setup the body holes, vintage vs. modern, I will just confirm that with Warmoth on the phone when I place my order.
In terms of inalizing my specs for the order the only remaining item I am still ruminating on is whether to go with swamp ash, roasted swamp ash, or maybe even Black Korina. Still going back and forth on that. And on that note, whether to go with a pickguard or not, and if so whether to go with black or pearl. I see both colors used a lot on lighter "brown" telecasters. Once I choose the color I will likely order one anyway so I can decide later whether I want to use it or not. I am leaning towards black, but still undecided.
Thanks for your continued support. I am enjoying learning and appreciate the help. I wouldn't have known about the Free-Way switch, or the versatility of the P-Rails without your help. Cheers!

Yes the point of Triple shots is that they have switches in the pickup rings meaning you do not need push pull pots. If you were not using Triple shots I would have mentioned you would need push pulls or other switches.

You need a 3B3-01, 2 * 500K pots and a capacitor of your choice. Perhaps a 0.022uf is a usual choice with humbuckers.

Control plate?

There is no reason the Freeway 3B3-01 will not fit cleanly in a Tele control plate as it is pretty much what it is designed for.

You mention about possibly not using a pickguard. I would suggest if you do not use one that two humbuckers/P-Rails in the triple shot rings will look fine, but then you have a control plate just sort of stuck on the body, which if you ask me might look a little odd. Why not get the body as a rear rout then you will not need a control plate at all or pickguard and it may look better overall. Callaham control plates are very nice I have one on a Tele but they are by no means necessary.

Summary: my suggestion is pickguard use a control plate, no pickguard go rear rout.

Can you post a link to which Tele Bridge you mean. Is it this one?

https://warmoth.com/index.php/hardware/guitar-bridges/fixed-bridges/tele-bridges/fender-standard-flat-mount

That is not a Tele Bridge per se it is more of a Strat bridge but does work with a Tele. Whichever bridge it is make sure to choose the corresponding rout in the builder.

Good idea on ordering an Electro socket and football plate as you have both options.

 

Ozopart

Senior member
Messages
127
stratamania said:
Ozopart said:
I have communicated with Seymour Duncan support and Free-Way support. It seems that I can use the P-Rails Triple Shot with 500K pots without using push/push pots, but rather "normal" pots. I am waiting to hear back from Vision Guitar as to the parts needed for the full control plate build. The only issue I see is whether the 3B3-01 switch fits cleanly in the opening of a standard tele control plate. I see Callaham has one that looks nice and might work better but I will wait to hear from Vision Guitar on that aspect of things.
I think I am going to go with the electrosocket and 1/4 in output but also order a football plate as you say. Can't hurt to have it and it isn't costly.
As to the bridge I am going to go with the Narrow Tele bridge from Warmoth. As to how to setup the body holes, vintage vs. modern, I will just confirm that with Warmoth on the phone when I place my order.
In terms of inalizing my specs for the order the only remaining item I am still ruminating on is whether to go with swamp ash, roasted swamp ash, or maybe even Black Korina. Still going back and forth on that. And on that note, whether to go with a pickguard or not, and if so whether to go with black or pearl. I see both colors used a lot on lighter "brown" telecasters. Once I choose the color I will likely order one anyway so I can decide later whether I want to use it or not. I am leaning towards black, but still undecided.
Thanks for your continued support. I am enjoying learning and appreciate the help. I wouldn't have known about the Free-Way switch, or the versatility of the P-Rails without your help. Cheers!

Yes the point of Triple shots is that they have switches in the pickup rings meaning you do not need push pull pots. If you were not using Triple shots I would have mentioned you would need push pulls or other switches.

You need a 3B3-01, 2 * 500K pots and a capacitor of your choice. Perhaps a 0.022uf is a usual choice with humbuckers.

Control plate?

There is no reason the Freeway 3B3-01 will not fit cleanly in a Tele control plate as it is pretty much what it is designed for.

You mention about possibly not using a pickguard. I would suggest if you do not use one that two humbuckers/P-Rails in the triple shot rings will look fine, but then you have a control plate just sort of stuck on the body, which if you ask me might look a little odd. Why not get the body as a rear rout then you will not need a control plate at all or pickguard and it may look better overall. Callaham control plates are very nice I have one on a Tele but they are by no means necessary.

Summary: my suggestion is pickguard use a control plate, no pickguard go rear rout.

Can you post a link to which Tele Bridge you mean. Is it this one?

https://warmoth.com/index.php/hardware/guitar-bridges/fixed-bridges/tele-bridges/fender-standard-flat-mount

That is not a Tele Bridge per se it is more of a Strat bridge but does work with a Tele. Whichever bridge it is make sure to choose the corresponding rout in the builder.

Good idea on ordering an Electro socket and football plate as you have both options.
The bridge I was looking at is this one:
https://warmoth.com/index.php/hardware/guitar-bridges/fixed-bridges/narrow-spaced-strat-flat-mount-bridge
The one you sent looks fine also, I just thought that the narrow spaced one seemed to be designed for humbuckers.

I will research further on the controls - top rout vs. rear rout. I am under the impression that a rear rout would mean different controls?, or does it just mean that the top would have holes where the same controls would go thru the body from the rear rout, like the volume, tone and blade? If so, that might look nice. I just don't want different controls than the standard tele. Meaning the ones that have 2 volume and 2 tone controls. I don't like that look on a tele. Either way I am also going to research the pros and cons of pickguards. I know it protects from skin and scratches, but not sure if there are other reasons. Basically if I go pickguard I see it as a one way street. Probably the best bet is to go pickguard and control plate. That is where I am leaning.

 

Ozopart

Senior member
Messages
127
stratamania said:
Yes that bridge is fine just make sure to choose the correct rout for it.
Perfect, it seems like the safest bet. There are a number of bridges on Stewmac that I like better but then it introduces the complication of having to make sure they will fit with the bridge routing from Warmoth. Better to keep this simple.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,453
Forgot to add the rear rout option in a tele can give you the same control layout, blade, volume and tone.
 

Ozopart

Senior member
Messages
127
stratamania said:
Forgot to add the rear rout option in a tele can give you the same control layout, blade, volume and tone.

I know this is an unfair question, but in your experience, is the build I am working on with rear rout, and no pickguard a good option in terms of looks and functionality? I know this is personal taste but what I am asking is sort of based on your personal experience and the what you have seen, is rear rout with no pickguard something that has been done? If so, is it uncommon? I am definitely leaning towards a pickguard but still up in the air on that. If I go rear rout I believe that you are saying I could go pickguard or not.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,453
A rear rout is certainly something that has been done on Teles. With a rear rout a pickguard usually would not be used. I think this is a good look in terms of how it looks and functionality.

Here is a mock up with black korina, binding and F hole. But play around in the builder and see what you come up with.

index.php


Also front routs have been done without pickguards but with a control plate and they look sort of unfinished to me.




 

Attachments

  • TeleRearRout.png
    TeleRearRout.png
    477 KB · Views: 137

Ozopart

Senior member
Messages
127
Of course my cost keeps going up, but I am thinking that this is getting closer. Now that I am looking at the rear route with no pickguard, it seems as though a Thinline body with an F-Hole works better in terms of looks. Seems more balanced. But, again, the cost goes up because it introduces the need for a laminate top. I like the Black Korina look but think I could go with Swamp Ash for the body and Black Korina for the top, with an Ivaroid Binding. If I went all one wood I might not need the binding, but I like the way it looks.
I am attaching the build I have come up with now. I choose the thinline controls option because it seems to balance more with the f-hole.
 

Attachments

  • Thinline Body.pdf
    1.6 MB · Views: 49

Ozopart

Senior member
Messages
127
teleme01 said:
crazy math here,  the pickguard cost $25 more or less,  the rear route cost $20
True, but my decision is really based on the looks of the guitar with pickguard or not, not the price. Although you are correct, the cost aspect is a wash.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,453
Binding, laminates and F holes, I just did for a bit of fun and none of them are needed. The rear rout is available on a solid body also.
 

Ozopart

Senior member
Messages
127
stratamania said:
Binding, laminates and F holes, I just did for a bit of fun and none of them are needed. The rear rout is available on a solid body also.
OK, so I know you probably think I am crazy but this is just a tough choice as there are so many variables. Like TBurst std said earlier, I just need to determine what I am looking for. Overall I am most focused on adding versatility to my current setup which is just my Warmoth Strat build with Lindy Fralin pickups. I am not as concerned with looks but on that note when working on build options I have struggled in finding a finished option that looks good to me. So I am back to thinking build a very basic body of solid swamp ash, no binding, no laminate and unfinished. I can keep my cost way down and try the Tru-Oil finish option (sealer, tru oil, sheen). If I mess up it is a smaller investment so I can accept that risk as I don't see a Warmoth finished option I like. I am attaching a copy of what I have come up with now which I am thinking is my most practical option. It looks good and allows me to focus on the more important part of the equation which is the sound. On that note I am thinking rear rout would allow me versatility in that I could go pickguard or no pickguard (my preference). Between ordering the body and getting it finished and ready for final build I can focus on the sound. I like the P-Rails Triple Shot option but don't know enough yet to be sure. I am very happy with my Fralin pickups and like dealing with them so that is still an option. I like the Freeway 3B3-01 switch option, but might not need it if I go with Fralin. Anyway, what I am saying is I have a few months at least to explore all of that. Pickups/Wiring is such a complex category/option I want to explore it further before deciding. I just know I want something that adds to my current single coil setup.
 

Attachments

  • WarmothTele10292021.pdf
    500.8 KB · Views: 62

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,453
Thats a perfectly reasonable way to go with swamp ash and finishing it yourself. Actually it is better than going all in for a bunch of custom exotic woods and so forth. You should only do that if you know absolutely what you want.

And with a rear rout with two humbuckers there are plenty of options other than P-Rails with triple shots. A pair of Suhr Thornbuckers springs to mind with a 5 way switch such as on the Suhr Pete Thorn model which give five versatile tones which is certainly less overkill than 72 options. It would not change the ash body and options you have in your pdf at all.
 

teleme01

Senior member
Messages
388
https://warmoth.com/index.php/guitar-bodies/telecaster/t-7740-20317

reroute the pickups to humbucker and you got it
 

Ozopart

Senior member
Messages
127
stratamania said:
Thats a perfectly reasonable way to go with swamp ash and finishing it yourself. Actually it is better than going all in for a bunch of custom exotic woods and so forth. You should only do that if you know absolutely what you want.

And with a rear rout with two humbuckers there are plenty of options other than P-Rails with triple shots. A pair of Suhr Thornbuckers springs to mind with a 5 way switch such as on the Suhr Pete Thorn model which give five versatile tones which is certainly less overkill than 72 options. It would not change the ash body and options you have in your pdf at all.
I am about 99.99% sure that this is the way I am going to go. As to the P-Rails, they look great but I just want to research a bit more to understand better the pros and cons in terms of sound and versatility. I just don't understand enough yet the difference between the P-90 and humbucker pickups. I watched one video comparing a P-90 (not sure which model) and humbucker and at least in that video every humbucker demo sounded "better' to me. Describing sound/tone is to me almost as difficult as the medical pain scale, and describing what a pain feels like. Hard to put into words but you know it when you feel it or hear it. For lack of a better way of describing it, humbuckers sound rounder, or more full than the P-90. And, the humbuckers also seem to have more sustain. But that could have been just a particular pickup, not sure.
 

Ozopart

Senior member
Messages
127
teleme01 said:
https://warmoth.com/index.php/guitar-bodies/telecaster/t-7740-20317

reroute the pickups to humbucker and you got it
If I don't use a pickguard I wonder if the pickup rout for HH would not look right? Not sure. I didn't know re-routing was possible. One other thing. I am planning on a strat neck. I know you can put a strat neck in a tele neck pocket but I don't know how that would look.
 
Top