The ORDER of the Phoenix

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I think the only two units that anyone (outside of marketing) has ever said faithfully recreate a tube amp are the AxeFX and the Kemper.

The Kemper does actually have an A/B switch on it so once you've made your profile you can switch between them and see how close you've gotten. I remember reading a thing a while back where the user had used the A/B switch, and then decided the switch must not be working, because they were only hearing the real amp. So they turned off the real amp, and hey presto, the switch was working fine. It just really was that good.

No clue what you're talking about.  I never mentioned anything about using a Kemper or any other modeling box, just about an order of pedals and an effects loop.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

Ah, somehow I put that post in the wrong thread! I'll fix it.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Ah, somehow I put that post in the wrong thread! I'll fix it.

I just posted in your thread about the same thing being in this one. :toothy12: 

Funny stuff!  I've done that before and everyone was just kinda like, "Uh...huh?"  :doh:

 

[AndyG]

Okay, I tried running my Chorus and Reverb into the effects loop.  I like the way the Chorus sounds in it, but the sound of the Reverb made my ears (and nearly my eyes...) bleed.  It sounded more like crashing symbols than any sort of "reverb."  It was the most horrific sound I've ever heard come from an amplifier.  I pulled the Reverb from the effects loop, and all was well.  :hello2:

Here's my current setup:

Effects Loop- Super Chorus

From the Head- Wah > Reverb > Guitar

To put this thread back on track ....
I only ever used an FX loop with rack mount units ... never pedals ...
However, if your reverb pedal has a "blend" or "mix" control, that may help the situation.  It is unusual that a reverb pedal would sound worse in a loop that it would straight into the front of the amp.  Time-base effects are a natural fit for an FX loop, simply because the loop is situated after the preamp, so any distortion/gain that happens at the preamp stage would be "cleanly" effected by any pedals in the loop.  If the chorus sounds good in the loop, the reverb should sound good in there as well.

 

[drewski]

Perhaps too high on the effects level knob of the reverb pedal if it has one......maybe have to crank it higher in the effects chain then you would in as part of the loop after the signal is pre-amped????

grasping at straws since I always used onboard reverb but have played plenty with delay and the effects level always has a pretty big impact on the sound (duh)

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Perhaps too high on the effects level knob of the reverb pedal if it has one......maybe have to crank it higher in the effects chain then you would in as part of the loop after the signal is pre-amped????

grasping at straws since I always used onboard reverb but have played plenty with delay and the effects level always has a pretty big impact on the sound (duh)

The Pedal I'm using is the Boss Digital Reverb.  It does have a knob for the effects level, but regardless of its setting, the sound is still awful.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I really thought you'd be a spring reverb tank kind of guy.

 

[Cagey]

Not all effects loops are created equal. For instance, I have a Rivera Venus 6 on the bench right now that has one of the better loops I've seen...

It has level adjusts for both the send and return, plus a switch to set whether the loop is in the first, second, or both channels. You'll also notice they've marked the impedance ratings of the in/out, which is unusual but handy to know. Pedals designed for the front end sometimes won't work as well in the loop due to impedance mismatches. Sounds like that may be the problem you're having.

 

[stratamania]

What kind of effects loop do you have in the amp ?

Serial or parallel ?

If parallel is it set to fully wet ?

Or if you don't know what is the make and model of amp ?

Does it have a setting for line level or stomp. It may say 10db or 4db

 

[AndyG]

Does it have a setting for line level or stomp. It may say 10db or 4db

This is an excellent question.
If you want to run pedals through your effects loop, it has to be set to -10dB.  +4dB is for line-level devices (ie: rack mount units).
If you try to ram a +4dB signal into the pedal looking for a -10dB signal, it will distort, and not in a nice way.  Distorted digital reverb could very well be the "eye bleeding" sound you were describing.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I really thought you'd be a spring reverb tank kind of guy.

Jumble, I'll be the first to admit I'm an absolute idiot when it comes to tone-sculpting.  I know what reverb is and that's about where it ends for me.  I have no clue what a spring reverb is.  I hear something I like, find out what I need to achieve that sound, and buy it.  Then, I wind up with a load of effects, mix them up like a bad batch of cookies, and hope they turn out good.  :tard:

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Not all effects loops are created equal. For instance, I have a Rivera Venus 6 on the bench right now that has one of the better loops I've seen...

It has level adjusts for both the send and return, plus a switch to set whether the loop is in the first, second, or both channels. You'll also notice they've marked the impedance ratings of the in/out, which is unusual but handy to know. Pedals designed for the front end sometimes won't work as well in the loop due to impedance mismatches. Sounds like that may be the problem you're having.

I'll have to get a pic of the back of my amp.  The Send/Return on mine also have knobs, which I have turned up about halfway for each.

 

[DavyDave53]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but this mickey mouse question is not worthy of it's own thread....

Can one put a boost pedal in the effects loop to give slight volume increase for solos?

I just hate it when you increase the volume in front of the preamp and it just gets more distorted and not louder.

 

[Cagey]

To answer your question directly, yes, you can. However, it might not get you where you want to go. It's going to act like another gain stage, so you may end up over-driving the phase inverter section, which manifests itself as preamp distortion.

It's often easier to just switch channels, with the second channel being tweaked to where you want it.

Easier still, which also leaves your second channel free to do other things, is to tweak everything so your guitar's volume is your control. In other words, get your amp levels and tone and SFX all set with the guitar's volume set on 6 or 7. Then when you need a boost, the knob's only 2" away.

 

[Jumble Jumble]

The problem with that is that turning up your volume control also increases the amount of distortion.

Getting the exact same amount of distortion at different volumes is actually a non-trivial problem. My friend has a Hughes & Kettner amp that has selectable power levels, but you can actually select them in real time through a MIDI foot controller. This has allowed him to achieve the same-distortion-different-volume effect, through switching the actual amp power during a song. Very clever (and expensive).

 

[Jumble Jumble]

I know what reverb is and that's about where it ends for me.  I have no clue what a spring reverb is.  I hear something I like, find out what I need to achieve that sound, and buy it.  Then, I wind up with a load of effects, mix them up like a bad batch of cookies, and hope they turn out good.  :tard:

You should really look up spring reverb on the internet and read about it a bit, just for curiosity's sake. It's an incredibly low-tech solution and I'm always amazed that it even works, never mind actually sounding good. My "favourite" thing about it is that you can kick the unit and make a deafening sound like a thunderclap.

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

I know what reverb is and that's about where it ends for me.  I have no clue what a spring reverb is.  I hear something I like, find out what I need to achieve that sound, and buy it.  Then, I wind up with a load of effects, mix them up like a bad batch of cookies, and hope they turn out good.  :tard:

You should really look up spring reverb on the internet and read about it a bit, just for curiosity's sake. It's an incredibly low-tech solution and I'm always amazed that it even works, never mind actually sounding good. My "favourite" thing about it is that you can kick the unit and make a deafening sound like a thunderclap.

There's a "Spring Reverb" setting on my pedal that I actually decided to use, as per your mention of "Spring Reverb."  I decided to mess around with it inside my effects loop again and actually found some really good tones.  It's going to take a little bit of fine-tuning, but I've had success.  I'm actually pretty happy with the sound I've gotten.  I think I'm going to leave the Reverb and Super Chorus in the effects loop! :toothy10:

 

[stratamania]

What kind of effects loop do you have in the amp ?

Serial or parallel ?

If parallel is it set to fully wet ?

Or if you don't know what is the make and model of amp ?

Does it have a setting for line level or stomp. It may say 10db or 4db

Is help no longer needed ?

 

[Torment Leaves Scars]

What kind of effects loop do you have in the amp ?

Serial or parallel ?

If parallel is it set to fully wet ?

Or if you don't know what is the make and model of amp ?

Does it have a setting for line level or stomp. It may say 10db or 4db

Is help no longer needed ?

I think I got it, thanks for the help!  :hello2:

 

[stratamania]

OK