The Les Ball™ or Ernie Paul™- You decide (Not Warmoth)

[Dazkeirle]

Ok. let me start this off properly,

This build is not in any way a satisfactory substitution for a Warmoth, there is no substitute, I would rather build another Warmoth than buy another Fender or anything else. This build is a project to help me, learn lots of valuable woodwork and guitar building skills, so that on my next Warmoth build I can be more involved, and do more myself.

I wouldn't practice on a Warmoth as I'd feel like a murder had been committed, and can't wait to be happy enough in my skills to make the next Warmoth leap.

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Ok back to the build, So I want to get to grips with all of the basic guitar building skills and know the rough way to put a guitar together, just need the experience. I wasn't fussed about what I was building, so long as it's not a Strat. I have 2, I don't want or need any more.

The Body

I thought it only right to start looking on ebay at the Les Paul side of the spectrum and so started scanning for reasonable ex-project bodies, Les Paul shaped from interesting sources.

As I started scanning I found myself being drawn away from epiphone bodies and weird Chinese brand to unknown luthiers and handmade projects. I love wood, especially exotics or uncommon and after a little wait what I saw as a bargain appeared.

There was a beater British Walnut Solid Les Paul body made by a random bloke in the UK that had been hanging around his workshop. It would need some work, some drilling, refinishing, who knows what it could need from the photos but I thought it would be fun to see, and at only £45 notes a low risk.

Around this time I'd been listening to loads of 3 Doors Down, love that band and became aware that their main rhythm guitarist, Chris Henderson, played a single cut PRS with 3 humbuckers. As this is just for fun, and I already had 2 single coil strats, why not go the other extreme so had the guy route a third humbucker for £25.

What turned up was, as expected, rough around the edges but a beautiful weighted and solid Walnut Les Paul. Loads of figure in the wood and lots which could be done to it.

The Neck

While waiting through the snowstorms, festivities and laziness of the sender on the body I got looking for a neck. Now I started with a mindset of a Les Paul Neck, preferably in a dark wood to blend with the walnut. However I was happy to look at other brands and styles.

I saw an item come up that really took my fancy, although was absolutely nothing like what I was looking for, and I had no idea how it would look with the body.

What I saw was a luthier built Rock Maple Ernie Ball Music Man style neck. The neck was signed by the luthier, a guy names Frank La Mueg in 1995 however it looked in great condition and the seller added it hadn't been played for 10 years with no wear.

What made it more attractive was that it had unique side dotted inlays and came complete with a set or Sperzels, which I love in my Warmoth.

So £105 later it arrived and is a thing of beauty.


Happy days! Looks great together by my eyes. Sure a bit of a Frankenstein's monster but with some hardware and a damn good session with some sandpaper, elbow grease and a spray gun with some top lacquer I'm sure we'll have it looking great.

So, starting to do list:

• Body
• Remove existing lacquer from body
• Sand out, fill and sand or expand any dings
• reseal wood
• re-lacquer
• Get neck seated correctly and drill neck holes.

Start saving for the next steps (and next Warmoth)

Go easy on me and sorry for the camera phone images, I'll update with real ones when I can.

 

[djf67]

I was tempted by that body but the vendor's pic was cr&p and the grain patterns didn't appear to line up well on the 3pc top. Looks much better in your shot.
Does that neck fit & intonate? The heel looks all wrong in your pic.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

That will be cool.  :icon_thumright:

Does the neck match the scale of the body?

I noticed he did a really weird route for that middle pup. You might want to set a pup mounting ring over it to see if the wood for the mounting screws is still there.  :icon_scratch:

 

[hannaugh]

That's a nice looking body.  But yeah, make sure the scale is correct, otherwise you're gonna be ripping out your hair trying to figure out why it won't intonate correctly. 

 

[Dazkeirle]

I was tempted by that body but the vendor's pic was cr&p and the grain patterns didn't appear to line up well on the 3pc top. Looks much better in your shot.
Does that neck fit & intonate? The heel looks all wrong in your pic.

Yeah well you probably dodged a bullet there. He said it was a fender fit heal but the neck is not a tight fit, there is too much cut out which I'll have to find a way to fill I suppose. The neck has a definite Fender shaped heel and looks to be a great piece, so I don't regret that.

If I'm honest I probably won't end up using the body as a production piece but it could be used as a testing block while I'm waiting for the right Warmoth LP body to come along. Can't harm practicing sanding, lacquering, drilling and routing on something roughly guitar shaped.

The body is gonna need a lot of work and as the other poster said the middle route is cut weird, there is also not the deeper routes inside which i suppose are for the screws, that area is very close to a chamber.

If I'm honest it's one of my regretful purchases, It took 4 weeks to come and I practically had to beg the guy to send it. As a word of caution his names Gareth Dickie and calls his work Rayne Guitars - (ebay whatwoodyoulike). He's the worst person I've ever dealt with and his workmanship is shoddy. His packaging was also ridiculous an it's lucky there isn't worse damage than whats there. I could write 1000 paragraphs of why i literally think he's such a cock but I can't be bothered to stress myself over a relatively small amount of money and something I can't change.

Maybe I can actually use a bit of TLC and talent and work at it until it's something beautiful, or not.

I asked him to drill some bridge holes for a TOM and he asked what spec, we decided the official Gibson size would be best, what did he do? Give me a Gotoh size, whenever I brought that up he ignored it.

Should things get me down in this build, I'll just pick up my strat (which is looking super-fly with some Nexus black strings) and rock out to some 3-dd, that'll take the blues away. I'm glad i went for the push pull on that to give me the 3 single coils together option. With a little distortion it does sound good with rock.

Intonation and scales are a bit out of my depth, as is probably guitar building in general except for ready to go excellent quality pieces like Warmoths. Lucky I have all you guys here to tut tut me disappointingly and push me in the right direction. I am but a noob. I'm mainly happy to have something to talk about here again, It's just such a great forum.

 

[TomPerverteau]

Work on the body with the intention of playing it. Don't write it off as a loss before you even start on it.

 

[Dazkeirle]

Work on the body with the intention of playing it. Don't write it off as a loss before you even start on it.

O.K. boss  :headbang:

I suppose I'm just disappointed it wasn't as described, however would be good to turn it into a smashing piece by my own two hands, I do like detailed projects which require attention. I won't intentionally go out there and ruin it, but accidents happen, and should I have a big one on a £500 Warmoth I'll be more than disappointed.

At the least the neck turned out great, and with the price of the tuners removed only cost me £40, which is great considering it's a bit different and built to high spec.

I appreciate the words of encouragement though.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Before you go any further, you need to measure the distance from the nut to the 12th fret wire to determine which scale neck you have. Take what ever that measurement is and double it. That is the scale length of the neck you have. Example: nut to 12th fret = 12.5 inches x 2 = 25.0 inch scale length. Then once you know that, you need to measure the distance from the nut to the bridge saddles (should be the same, i.e. 25.0 inches) to determine if they will work together.

Worst case, even if you decide to go with another body, you still need to know what scale neck you have to get the body routed correctly.

 

[Dazkeirle]

ok,

Well i've done that, what you asked, but im confused.

Measurement to 12 fret is 12 inches when neck is on body nut to saddle will be about 25.5 inches - does look a little less though.

Obviously this doesn't conform to your rule so I measured my US Fender strat.

Nut to 12th fret 12 inches, nut to saddles 25.5 inches.

Are you absolutely sure your algorithm is correct as I the Fender says otherwise. (24 inches is somewhere over the bridge pickup.)

 

[blue313]

ok,

Well i've done that, what you asked, but im confused.

Measurement to 12 fret is 12 inches when neck is on body nut to saddle will be about 25.5 inches - does look a little less though.

Obviously this doesn't conform to your rule so I measured my US Fender strat.

Nut to 12th fret 12 inches, nut to saddles 25.5 inches.

Are you absolutely sure your algorithm is correct as I the Fender says otherwise. (24 inches is somewhere over the bridge pickup.)

DBU is correct, although he left out the part about compensation (the reason why acoustic bridges are angled).   Are you sure you're measuring from the front of the nut to the center of 12th fret?  Twelve inches on a Fender Strat would be just past the 11th fret.

The bridge saddles are always just a bit past where they should be.  This compensates for the angle of the strings from the nut to the bridge and allows it to play in tune.

 

[Dazkeirle]

ahh centre of the 12th fret, I was doing it on the piss.

Sure enough is 12 3/4 with entire scale length being 25.5 inches on the fender.

Unfortunately the neck i have here for the EB is 12 3/4 to the 12th but when on the body the scale length falls short and 25.5 is further back than the saddle position.

Les Pauls appear to have a scale length 24 3/4" aparently and so these two together have me a weird cross breed that i assume will never work.

Too bad, I'll just have to get some cheap LP neck and still it on the body to use as a spare.

Anyone got a body for sale, preferably for a 25.5 inch scale length? (whats the correct way to say this?)  :doh:

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Sorry to hear that, I was afraid it would be an issue. But it's better to find out early in the process.  :icon_thumright:

 

[Dazkeirle]

Indeed it is, a rookie mistake that I'll surely not make again. I'm at the start of a long journey of learning.

Out of luck i actually purchased an Epiphone LP neck shortly before the EB one, which will be the correct scale, although not quite a fancy.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260530850029

perhaps I'll proceed with the LP build as a trial project and hang on to the EB neck for when i get my hands on a decent Warmoth body that'll do it justice.

 

[chrisg]

It looks to me like the neck pocket was cut for a glued in neck rather than a bolt on, however a 25.5 inch scale length will work.  I think you may need to "fill-in" part of the neck route to get it right.  Not an impossible job but will require a bit of fiddling.  The other issue is the middle HB route, and I would do as DBU suggests and set a pup mounting ring over it to see if the wood for the mounting screws is still there.  With a bit of planning carefully this will still work for you.  Stick with it  :icon_thumright:

 

[blue313]

ahh centre of the 12th fret, I was doing it on the piss.

Sure enough is 12 3/4 with entire scale length being 25.5 inches on the fender.

Unfortunately the neck i have here for the EB is 12 3/4 to the 12th but when on the body the scale length falls short and 25.5 is further back than the saddle position.

Les Pauls appear to have a scale length 24 3/4" aparently and so these two together have me a weird cross breed that i assume will never work.

You can always fill the holes with hardwood dowels and redrill them wherever youd like.  So long as 25.5" doesnt fall inside the bridge pickup rout you're good.

Too bad, I'll just have to get some cheap LP neck and still it on the body to use as a spare.

Anyone got a body for sale, preferably for a 25.5 inch scale length? (whats the correct way to say this?)  :doh:

Strat scale or 25.5" scale is quite common.  Now that we have the measurement on your scale, see if the heel of your neck meets these specs.  If it does you're golden.
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/faq2.aspx

 

[Dan025]

to be clear on the subject of scale length. warmoth places the heel of the neck the same distance from the bridge saddles for 24.75 and 25.5 and baritone scales. they use the fender guitars as a standard. their 24.75 and baritone necks can be used to convert a fender guitar to a shorter scale or longer scale.
there are alternative neck pocket available though. for the 24" mustang necks and for warmoths own 24.75" necks with 24 frets as used on the 7/8th scale strats. as far as i can tell they will route any body with these pocket/bridge relationships but the body will be unrefundable other than a mustang pocket on a mustang body.

the neck you have is probably not built according the the fender neck pocket location but to be sure that you don't have an odd neck pocket measure from your bridge saddles to the back edge of the pocket and compare to a fender guitar. sorry i don't know the spec off the top of my head or know exactly where to find it. i'm sure there is an old threads that someone can find

 

[Unwound G]

I can see it turning out good.  For playability, you may have to shim the neck pocket to get an angle to align with the T-O-M bridge.  Good luck.

 

[Dazkeirle]

I'm afraid the heels are different, as is the scale length.

I think I may use the Epiphone LP neck I have coming to build the body into a complete guitar (with the correct scale length) and go on a search for a better 25.5 compatible body for the EB style neck.

Here's a cheapo neck I bought for the body http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260530850029&rvr_id=&mfe=sidebar - comes with a Walnut Burl Veneer too (don't all queue at once). In the mean time I'll be using the LP body as a rough project. Hopefully that tosser hasn't routed out the third HB so much as I can't screw it on. I'll be picking up some rings tonight / tomorrow to test.

At least I can make all my mistakes on this guitar, and won't spend months crying over it. Turns out one of my old uni mates has been busy refurbing, building and working on guitars in his workshop for the last few years and is there to give me advice and help as I need it. That surely is going to come in handy so at least I'm not on my own now.

As for building the EB guitar, not very often you see Axis Super Sport copies (cus that would be cool with a little quilt on it and some sunburst), I'm in no hurry so we'll have to wait and see what happens. Considering they're such high value guitars, The Ernie Ball Axis Sports, Silhoettes and Lukes etc, I'm surprised Warmoth hasn't copied their shapes too... I suppose not mainstream enough. I could just go for an OLP model or something, but I'd really prefer something more unique and with a Warmoth feel (if you know what I mean) I don't want both new guitar projects not to feature some Warmoth magic dust.

 

[blue313]

As for building the EB guitar, not very often you see Axis Super Sport copies (cus that would be cool with a little quilt on it and some sunburst), I'm in no hurry so we'll have to wait and see what happens. Considering they're such high value guitars, The Ernie Ball Axis Sports, Silhoettes and Lukes etc, I'm surprised Warmoth hasn't copied their shapes too... I suppose not mainstream enough.

Actually they did, and got attacked by Ernie Ball's legal team.  They sold off all their stock at "Fire Sale" prices had to stop production.  There's still some pics on their gallery.  

Some smaller builders still make them though.