The Cyclocaster project!

[Don]

Hello everybody
This is going to be a long and probably bad written post, so take a deep breath 
I'm new on the forum so i'll take the opportunity to excuse myself for my bad English (I'm an Italian student, and i'm attending public school  :icon_biggrin.
I'm asking for your help here, so if you are not reading this with the intention to help, please don't even bother to read further.
Another last preamble: i don't understang anything about lutherie, this is just an ideal project. I'm asking you if it's possible or not.
Let's get to business now  :icon_biggrin:
So as the title suggests i would like to build with Warmoth parts (I have no idea when, since i'm really broke. It's more of a dream than a project really.) a Fenderish guitar, something very similar to a Fender Cyclone II which has been discontinued in the '00s, but with a 25.5" scale Strato neck. Now i know it's not that big of a difference, not even 1 inch, though i play a Squier Affinity Strato made in Indonesia and i already feel that there's not enough space for my fingers there, specially on the higher registers, so I'm going for the 25.5" scale. That's where the trouble starts.
Cyclones were build with Mustang bodies, which are 24" scale if I'm not mistaken, so I can't just take a Mustang routed body and a Strato neck and put them together, it would screw up the diapason lenght and the guitar would be untuneable. I will have to get myself an unrouted mustang body and drill all the holes an inch and a half back. Doing this on an already routed body is hell, so i need an unrouted body.
So there goes the first big question: Can Warmoth build me an unrouted Mustang body, with no pick up holes, no bridge holes, no paint, just the Mustang shape and the neck pocket? If they can't i guess i'm going to get myself a mustang body with universal routing and start from there, although it will take out of the body a lot of wood, and i want to keep it as solid as i can.
Is this possible? Is there enough room on a mustang body?
The pickup configuration will be sss or i could even drop an humbucker somewhere there, but i'll explain the pickup situation in another post. Sure thing is there will be 3 pickups. The pickups are going to be connected to a cyclone on off switch (just like the jaguar's, only there is no rhytm switch, the third switch is an on off switch for the middle pickup) and the bridge will be a tremolo, much probably a floating trem like the ones on jaguars.
So that's it for the start. If this ends up being possible i'll gladly give you any other detail you want.
Thanks for the help anyways.

 

[AutoBat]

Can Warmoth build me an unrouted Mustang body, with no pick up holes, no bridge holes, no paint, just the Mustang shape and the neck pocket?

Probably.
Where are you going to source a 25" scale neck?  Warmoth only makes 7 strings in that scale.  Both the 25.5 & 24.75 conversion are designed to work with a 25.5 scale length.

Your project sounds very detailed & difficult (but I'm not good with modifying wood)

 

[Don]

Sorry, I meant 25.5", gonna fix that. The concept is a normal strato neck on a normal mustang body.

 

[Don]

The building process is not a worry, i got all the tools i need and i even know some fine craftsmen that can help me in the process .
The trouble is getting the parts i need.
Probably you say? That's a relief  how can i order that? I haven't found that option on the mustang's body builder page.
I guess i will have to design and cut the pickguard from a blank too cause there is no way I could find one that would fit it, as far as i know it should have some pretty unique proportions. Even if i managed to find a Cyclone II pickguard, which seems impossible, it would end up beeing too small and detached from the neck.
There's the pickup deal:
I don't understand anything about them apart from the real basics (difference between single coil and humbucker, hum, shielding etc).
I've seen that Cyclone's pickups are all angled, like the bridge pickup on Stratos: how does it affect the sound? What's the difference between straight and angled? The only difference i can hear between a cyclone and a strato is that the cyclone is more dirty, middle-oriented sounding while the strato is more thin and trebley.
I love the Fender sound, but i think that, on cheap instruments mainly, it sounds too thin. I know that to fix that there are some single coils that have more output signal, the so called "hot" pickups. They are more loud but more crispy and trebley too if i got that right. Right?
About the humbucker possibility: there's no way in hell i want to make this a fat strat. I don't like metal, i don't want to play it and i don't want the guitar to sound like it. I love the blues, and i love the gibson sound when playing blues. I know gibson uses practically only humbuckers, so i ask: is there a way to make a fender with two single coils that sound fender (bridge and neck?), to play clean tone and classic rock, with light to frusciante's level of distortion and one humbucker that sounds "bluesy gibson" like john lee hooker? (middle?) What pickups could i use to get that result? How should i place them?

 

[Hbom]

How about a nice 'slab' with the neck pocket route?
Then you can make whatever shape you want.
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/BodyBlank.aspx
:rock-on:

 

[Don]

How about a nice 'slab' with the neck pocket route?
Then you can make whatever shape you want.
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/BodyBlank.aspx
:rock-on:

Yeah i knew about that feature only i don't know if i can make them shape it like a mustang or if they just send you a routed block of wood  :icon_biggrin:
because it wouldn't make any sense like this, i'd have to shape it exactly like a 'stang which is difficult, (especially with hard woods. They tend to splinter. A lot.  :icon_biggrin and i would get a routed body which i don't need. Plus, i'd have to pay 20% of the value i pay in dollars for taxes, it would be much more convenient to buy a "slab" here in Italy. I'm aiming for an unrouted shaped body.  It shouldn't be difficult for them to make. It's just less work to do!

 

[Don]

C'mon guys! I need your help! Anyone? At least on the pickups bit.

 

[riverbluff]

Regarding the body, my #1 suggestion would be to call Warmoth and talk with the sales Rep.  My first guess would be that yes they could sell you a body with no routeing other then the neck pocket.

As far as pickups go, there are tons of single coil choices out there that can give you the sound you are looking for.  One of the Fourm members here makes pickups and everyone has raved about them (look up roadhouse pickups; He has a web site with sound clips I think).  You can also get some Bare Knuckle Pickups that will give you what you are looking for.

As far as alingnment goes, I would stick with how they are on the Fender (ie, angled bridge and straight neck and middle)  It seems that most single coil bridge pickups are angled.  There has been some debate back and forth on the reason why, But Leo (Fender) had great success with it so I'd follow his lead.

Cheers
Bill

 

[Don]

Regarding the body, my #1 suggestion would be to call Warmoth and talk with the sales Rep.  My first guess would be that yes they could sell you a body with no routeing other then the neck pocket.

Yeah i sent them an email today, calling them was a bit impractical due to language difference  :icon_scratch: let's hope they answer back soon

As far as pickups go, there are tons of single coil choices out there that can give you the sound you are looking for.  One of the Fourm members here makes pickups and everyone has raved about them (look up roadhouse pickups; He has a web site with sound clips I think).  You can also get some Bare Knuckle Pickups that will give you what you are looking for.

Bare Knucle's sound great.
It's possible to obtain the sound of a gibson humbucker with single coils then? Are you sure about this? Doesn't sound possible to me. Probably you misinterpreted the type of sound i want: i would love a guitar that has both the possibilities to give you a fender clean and rock sound (and that's where i need single coils) AND a gibson dirty cranked blues sound like the one an es-335 or an ephiphone sheraton could give you, just by using the switch.
I always found the middle pickup on my strato quite useless (unless used combined with the bridge to get a bit more middles on distortion) so i guess that i would (ideally i mean) place the humbucker there in the middle to get the blues sound. No idea how it will end up sounding though.
I'm not talking about the tele's blues sound or eric clapton's.
Could you be more specific about this?

As far as alingnment goes, I would stick with how they are on the Fender (ie, angled bridge and straight neck and middle)  It seems that most single coil bridge pickups are angled.  There has been some debate back and forth on the reason why, But Leo (Fender) had great success with it so I'd follow his lead.

Cheers
Bill

So you would use a strato configuration... I have no idea about this, but i have the feeling it wouldn't work if i want to get the sound i talked about above.
Plus, the Cyclone's are all angled, bridge, neck and middle, and it sound a bit more fat than a strat, i like that better.
Anyways, thanks a lot for the help man  :icon_thumright:

 

[Don]

They answered  :headbang:
no problem with the unrouted body, perfect!
One thing i omitted: i would like it vintage/cream or olympic white like Hendrix's legendary strat!  :toothy10:
I'll definitely give you some pictures if i ever get this beauty done... and if you give a shit to see it  :toothy12:

 

[riverbluff]

I would say check out the Bare Knuckle site and listen to the sound clips.  I have a set of Piledrivers in my Tele and while it doesn't sound exactly like my LP, I can still roll on the volume through the Marshall id jam to any Metallica song I feel like.

 

[Don]

I would say check out the Bare Knuckle site and listen to the sound clips.  I have a set of Piledrivers in my Tele and while it doesn't sound exactly like my LP, I can still roll on the volume through the Marshall id jam to any Metallica song I feel like.

I took a listen at their stuff and i found out that their "Stormy Monday" Humbucker and "Blue Note" P90 are quite similar to what i'm after, love them. At least when they are crancked up, clean they sound a bit too mellow to me, but i got single coils for clean 
also love theirs "Mothers milk" single coil.
Supposing that i should place the humbucker in the middle, what type should i buy? The neck one or the bridge one?
Also, they're quite damn pricey, 130 € just for the humbucker (something like 150 $  ).

 

[Don]

I suck pretty bad at Photoshop, but i did this little thing just to give you guys something to watch on.
What do you think about it?
What about the proportions, functionality?

 

[riverbluff]

Nice looking set up.   

 

[Don]

I got enough money for the neck and body order.
I'll be sss, with the jag 3 on off switches for the pups, all bare knuckles pups (irish tour 7.5 ohms on the neck, blue note 7.6 ohms p90 on middle, that's going to be a neck pup, and an irish tour 6.7 ohms in bridge... Will play pretty sweet, rough blues and rock if i get this right  :headbang
About the electronics: it'll be classic mustang 1 volume and 1 tone knob, pretty sure it's going to be 500k pots and a .47 or .33 cap to balance the hotness of the pickups and get better middles. I'm not sure about this though. I want to get a powerful, loud single coil sound but a little fatter than the standard strato sound. Any help?
I guess i'll have to shield it since it'll probably hum like a banshee. No idea about how to properly do it though. The same goes for soldering.
I need one last help-session for the neck  :toothy11:
The neck on my affinity squier feels waay too tiny. So i'm going to get it a little wider, don't know if my choices fits exactly my needs, so there it goes:

Vintage Modern Neck
Shaft Wood: Maple (classic strat, no doubt about it)
Fingerboard Wood: Indian Rosewood ( no need to repeat myself  :icon_biggrin
Nut Width: 11/16 (i feel the string spacing is too tight too, i can hardly play an Amag on open position using 3 fingers. Is that too wide? Squier's is 1.610 "
Orientation: Right Handed (that's fine)
Back Contour: no idea about this one. I feel the neck on the squier is too thin, it gets my hand sore quickly while playing chords. Should i get a thicker one? Which one?
Fingerboard Radius: 10-16” Compound (i'll guess this is a great solution for both comfort and playability. Right?)
Fingerboard Lenght: 22 (will it fit fine the mustang body?)
Fret Size: 6105 (i have some troubles sliding on my strato, the frets feel too high and crush against my fingers, i have crap technique, but smaller and lower frets should help. What do you think about it?)
Tuner Hole Size: Schaller (25/64”, 11/32”) (i don't care which tuners i'll use, i know schaller are famous for their tune-keeping stability. Which is best for a jag tremolo?)
Inlay: Cream Face Dots (cool with it)
String Nut: Graph Tech black TUSQ XL (it says it's bassier and holds tune well so it's better than plastic. 5$ more won't kill me.
Mounting Holes: Standard 4 Bolt (ok)
Finish: Clear Satin Nitro (ok)
Thanks for the help fellas

 

[AutoBat]

These are my suggestions/comments for your upcoming build:
Mustang & Jaguars are shortscale guitars. A 25.5" will not work on it. They need a 24" neck (i.e. either a Jag/Mustang or I understand the 7/8 series 24.75" will retrofit a Mustang/Jag (warhead headstock, 24 frets).
Maple/Rosewood is a great combo. If you're after a no-finish wood you may consider Canary.
I've always ordered 1 11/16" so I can't comment on the narrower or wider nuts.
I got the 59 Roundback profile on my first neck and a SRV (it's assymetrical) on my second.  I haven't gotten much play time on the SRV but can vouch strongly for the 59.  All hands are different, so your mileage may vary.
Compound radius is the way to go.
22 frets is your only option on the Mustang neck (unless you go for the 7/8 warhead, then it's 24 only)
6105 should work well (but make them STAINLESS STEEL!)
I can tell you which Schallers you want: Locking! Not only will they help maintain tuning they make string changes a breeze.
Cream face dots are fine with me, some people dislike them.
I've upgraded to a tusqXL from a standard MIM strat neck and it made me buy one on my first Warmoth build.  Unless you're a bone nut purist, I recommend it.

I hope this helps!

 

[Don]

Mustang & Jaguars are shortscale guitars. A 25.5" will not work on it. They need a 24" neck (i.e. either a Jag/Mustang or I understand the 7/8 series 24.75" will retrofit a Mustang/Jag (warhead headstock, 24 frets).

I don't know if you followed the whole thread, but i said that it's going to take some obvious repositioning of the bridge and pickups to get the guitar to play. I don't expect to just slam a strat neck on a Mustang and play it. I'll get a completely unrouted body to reposition everything to get a 25.5 diapason, it's part of the plan.
I know the mustang body is a little smaller than a strato, but it's way longer. I mean, it's longer from the neck end to the strap button on the guitar butt  , but it's shorter vertically. You meant that there isn't going to be enough room to play it, or it will just be generically uncomfortable maybe? I think i can get used to the difference.
Cool about the rest, gotta check the Roundback
Thanks man, you're being really helpful 

 

[Cagey]

Just a few comments...

500K pots are good, .47μf and .33μf caps are not. I suspect you inadvertently left off the leading zero and really meant .047μf and .033μf, which would be more useful parts in that context, but even those are pushing the limits of practicality. .033μf maybe, .022μf is more typical and useful. Also, don't waste your money on high-voltage or specialized package parts. Simple 10 cent ceramics will work equally well as $25 sealed paper/oil/film parts.

The rest of the issues are matters of personal taste and comfort, although I might add that regardless of the fret size you choose, get the stainless steel version. It will be 20 of the best dollars you ever spent on musical equipment.

 

[AutoBat]

Mustang & Jaguars are shortscale guitars. A 25.5" will not work on it. They need a 24" neck (i.e. either a Jag/Mustang or I understand the 7/8 series 24.75" will retrofit a Mustang/Jag (warhead headstock, 24 frets).

I don't know if you followed the whole thread...

Ah, I just saw your post and commented on that without reading up.  It was past my bedtime.

 

[Don]

500K pots are good, .47μf and .33μf caps are not. I suspect you inadvertently left off the leading zero and really meant .047μf and .033μf, which would be more useful parts in that context, but even those are pushing the limits of practicality. .033μf maybe, .022μf is more typical and useful. Also, don't waste your money on high-voltage or specialized package parts. Simple 10 cent ceramics will work equally well as $25 sealed paper/oil/film parts.

Yeah sorry i meant .047 or .033 caps 
If i understood correctly from the very superficial research i've done about caps, the higher the value, the more they stop high frequencies and get you a muffled sound. Since i don't want to get a muddy mess out of my fingers (as if my lack of mad skillz wasn't enough  :icon_biggrin, i guess i need a cap that guarantees a clear sound, as far as it goes for frequencies i mean, i don't care about the materials or cost. I'll get a 10 cents one, but which one? Stratos usually mount .047 and they sound quite trebley, i want something a bit meatier, so i though about the 0.33s. Should i consider the brightness of the 500k pots and go lower with .022s?
Or it's just a no brainer to ask which one fits and just go with the 0.22?
Thanks for the help anyways. And hey, cool avatar  :icon_thumright:

Ah, I just saw your post and commented on that without reading up.  It was past my bedtime.

Don't worry. I know how it feels, time zones drive you nuts  :toothy12: