Talk me out of this Swimming pool route nonsense (?)

TonyFlyingSquirrel

Senior member
Messages
4,245
teleme01 said:
TBurst Std said:
TonyFlyingSquirrel said:
I’ve opened up plenty of Fender and Schecter Strats for customers to find that many of them are default swimming pool routes simply because it allows diversity in fulfilling spec’s end product.  Nobody would have known if they weren’t opened up, and it hasn’t impacted their tone or playability up to that point.
Perzactly

I find most don’t know true hollow or semi hollow bodies vs chambered.  And then start connecting dots based upon a false premise. 

IE:  most people think a Ric 360 is semi hollow
That PRSs hollow and semi hollow are that
A Gibby Midtown is a semi hollow
A Fender Tele thin line is a semi hollow
Etc et al

All of them are chambered and are neither hollow or semi hollow

what do you classify a 336?

A highly routed solid body…
 

alexreinhold

Senior member
Messages
473
Interesting... I thought everyone was gonna advise against swimming pool. A few years back when I did my very first build, I called Warmoth to ask about dos and donts wrt tone. The very friendly salesman told me I'm golden as long as I don't go for swimming pool route. I never wanted to but that's been the only indication I've ever received of swimming pool and pros/cons.

What I wonder now is a) why did the industry bid farewell to the swimming pool then and b) why do you urgently want to lose as much weight as possible?
 

GT1-Reach

Active member
Messages
49
alexreinhold said:
Interesting... I thought everyone was gonna advise against swimming pool. A few years back when I did my very first build, I called Warmoth to ask about dos and donts wrt tone. The very friendly salesman told me I'm golden as long as I don't go for swimming pool route. I never wanted to but that's been the only indication I've ever received of swimming pool and pros/cons.

What I wonder now is a) why did the industry bid farewell to the swimming pool then and b) why do you urgently want to lose as much weight as possible?

To B:

I know that my strat could end up fairly heavy, i will install a lot of rather heavy parts that will add up.
I know there is always a variable in play when it comes to partscasters, i really want it to be good.

I ordered a one piece, roasted alder body, i don't have any idea how light or heavy the body will turn out. I'm currently deciding if i will change the route from hsh to pool, my luthier will do a lot of custom work anyway once the parts are here, he could also route more of the body away afterwards. but maybe i am lucky and the body will be fairly light. Target weight of the finished guitar is max 3,6 kg.
 
S

swarfrat

Guest
I have this thing for the 336. I've never had one. Probably never will own anything Gibson again. I know I like the idea of a hollow body for reasons the 336 does not fulfill. But they're still cute.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,220
alexreinhold said:
Interesting... I thought everyone was gonna advise against swimming pool. A few years back when I did my very first build, I called Warmoth to ask about dos and donts wrt tone. The very friendly salesman told me I'm golden as long as I don't go for swimming pool route. I never wanted to but that's been the only indication I've ever received of swimming pool and pros/cons.

What I wonder now is a) why did the industry bid farewell to the swimming pool then and b) why do you urgently want to lose as much weight as possible?

I would not normally advise a swimming pool rout for the sake of it, as I see no point in routing more wood than needed. But its all about context, an HSH versus Universal or swimming pool rout especially if the end user plans to rout more out of an HSH may be a reasonable proposition. Though from a point of view of tone routs probably make little difference with pickups hanging from a pickguard. Of course there are all sorts of opinions about it but also folks who end up finding out that their favourite Strat turned out to have a swimming pool rout.

Per a. I was not aware that a farewell by the industry had been made !

With regard to b) a chambered body which requires a lam top of some type might have been a better approach to weight reduction or looking for something in the showcase closer to the required weight.
 

musicispeace

Senior member
Messages
997
I have swimming pool, HSS, and SSS routed bodies. I can't hear any difference I would attribute to that and no audience is going to. I understand any two guitars (like two 335's, just as one example) can sound different to a given person. Sum of all parts, the room, the amp/speaker, the players perception on a given day....all part of the experience.
 

MikeW

Senior member
Messages
952
I got a hold of a 72 Strat re-issue body a while ago. It was made out of a beautiful piece of Swamp Ash, but damn it was heavy. When I was going to repurpose the body I did exactly what you're talking about; routing more away from under the pickguard than just the swimming pool rout. My goal was to get the body as close to 4lbs as possible. I got down to about 4.2 lbs; close enough to call it good.

Tonally, when plugged in, there's no difference from before the re-routing. Acoustically, there's a bit more resonance and sustain than before. YMMV, but I'm attributing that to less dense wood to absorb string vibrations, but there's a different bridge and a Roasted Maple/Rosewood neck on it now as well.

TLDR; go for it! I did it and it works great. Pics attached for effect.
 

Attachments

  • ReadyForPaint_cutdown.jpg
    ReadyForPaint_cutdown.jpg
    348.6 KB · Views: 61
  • AssemblyDone_cutdown.jpg
    AssemblyDone_cutdown.jpg
    333.1 KB · Views: 49
  • TheRitchie_cutdown.jpg
    TheRitchie_cutdown.jpg
    394.7 KB · Views: 53

GT1-Reach

Active member
Messages
49
MikeW said:
I got a hold of a 72 Strat re-issue body a while ago. It was made out of a beautiful piece of Swamp Ash, but damn it was heavy. When I was going to repurpose the body I did exactly what you're talking about; routing more away from under the pickguard than just the swimming pool rout. My goal was to get the body as close to 4lbs as possible. I got down to about 4.2 lbs; close enough to call it good.

Tonally, when plugged in, there's no difference from before the re-routing. Acoustically, there's a bit more resonance and sustain than before. YMMV, but I'm attributing that to less dense wood to absorb string vibrations, but there's a different bridge and a Roasted Maple/Rosewood neck on it now as well.

TLDR; go for it! I did it and it works great. Pics attached for effect.

Thanks for the input ! looks good!

But the question remains, what was the starting weight of the guitar before the routing?
 

WindsurfMaui

Senior member
Messages
329
here is my 2 cents. I like swimming pool routing (SP) because it makes it easier to put pickguard in since you don't have to worry about wires fitting in the channel. However, you need to get a 3 ply pickguard or over time the pickguard might sink in the middle and move away from the strings by the weight of the pick ups and your hand pressing on the pickguard.

I think they went out of style because some thought the extra wood added to tone and again the pickguard problem with a single ply pickguard.

If I were worried about weight I would go chambered but I do think it effects tone. I think it takes some of the hard bite out of the pickups, 1) if you are looking for that and 2) if you aren't using racks and boxes to shape your tone. Otherwise chambered would solve the problem of weight.

Let us know how it all works out after the build.
 

GT1-Reach

Active member
Messages
49
Yeah, i will let you know when the guitar is finished. But it will take a while, i expect it to be finished during summer.

This project is actually a pretty big deal for me, expect a good presentation of it here or on the gear page. or both.

(little side qustion: does a parts guitar with warmoth body and neck from another manufacturer count as a "warmoth" here?)

I would post it in the gallery section here if yes.
 

WindsurfMaui

Senior member
Messages
329
Curious how it can be a Warmoth build if from a different company.

Anyway, post along the way when you discover something others can learn from. Thanks
 

The Aaron

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,538
GT1-Reach said:
Yeah, i will let you know when the guitar is finished. But it will take a while, i expect it to be finished during summer.

This project is actually a pretty big deal for me, expect a good presentation of it here or on the gear page. or both.

(little side qustion: does a parts guitar with warmoth body and neck from another manufacturer count as a "warmoth" here?)

I would post it in the gallery section here if yes.


That is a good question.

Every year that I go to NAMM, and occasionally when out and about at random music stores, I come across somebody who is using Warmoth parts to create their own line of original guitars. Usually they are adding value somehow, in the form of creative paintjobs, carvings, custom configurations, or whatever. In most cases there is no way to tell outwardly that the guitar is made from Warmoth parts, but at this point I am pretty good at spotting the giveaways.

Usually if I ask them if they have used Warmoth parts they will be forthright and say "Yes"....but not always.

Anyway, there really is no such thing as a "Warmoth guitar". Warmoth makes parts (with the Meadowhawk and Redshifter being the ONLY exceptions.) When some third party adds value somehow it really becomes their thing, and I wouldn't call it a "Warmoth guitar". I would call it whatever they call it.

A good example would be the two original Nightswans built by Buddy Blaze. He used a Warmoth body and neck for both of them, but I would not call them "Warmoths". They are Buddy Blaze Nightswans AFAIAC.

All that said, I still think it's cool and I'm always interested to see what people have done with Warmoth parts.
 

GT1-Reach

Active member
Messages
49
I just want / wanted to avoid comments like "you can't post this guitar here, it is only a warmoth neck without a warmoth body" or vice versa.

thats what i meant.  :glasses10:
 

mayfly

Senior member
Messages
8,233
GT1-Reach said:
I just want / wanted to avoid comments like "you can't post this guitar here, it is only a warmoth neck without a warmoth body" or vice versa.

thats what i meant.  :glasses10:

Don't worry.  You're cool. 
 

bruzanhd

Senior member
Messages
136
The Aaron said:
A good example would be the two original Nightswans built by Buddy Blaze. He used a Warmoth body and neck for both of them, but I would not call them "Warmoths". They are Buddy Blaze Nightswans AFAIAC.

Never knew that's how the Nightswan came to be, very cool.
 

The Aaron

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,538
bruzanhd said:
The Aaron said:
A good example would be the two original Nightswans built by Buddy Blaze. He used a Warmoth body and neck for both of them, but I would not call them "Warmoths". They are Buddy Blaze Nightswans AFAIAC.

Never knew that's how the Nightswan came to be, very cool.


Yup. Here is a blog post I wrote about the Buddy Blaze/Kramer Nightswan built from Warmoth parts a few years ago.
 

stratamania

Senior member
Messages
9,220
GT1-Reach said:
I just want / wanted to avoid comments like "you can't post this guitar here, it is only a warmoth neck without a warmoth body" or vice versa.

thats what i meant.  :glasses10:

If the Guitar of the Month rules allow entries as long as the entry has a Warmoth neck or Body or both, then it is not a problem to post a build that has a Warmoth body and a neck from Fender or somewhere else as long as one sticks to the rest of the forum guidelines.

 

MikeW

Senior member
Messages
952
GT1-Reach said:
MikeW said:
I got a hold of a 72 Strat re-issue body a while ago. It was made out of a beautiful piece of Swamp Ash, but damn it was heavy. When I was going to repurpose the body I did exactly what you're talking about; routing more away from under the pickguard than just the swimming pool rout. My goal was to get the body as close to 4lbs as possible. I got down to about 4.2 lbs; close enough to call it good.

Tonally, when plugged in, there's no difference from before the re-routing. Acoustically, there's a bit more resonance and sustain than before. YMMV, but I'm attributing that to less dense wood to absorb string vibrations, but there's a different bridge and a Roasted Maple/Rosewood neck on it now as well.

TLDR; go for it! I did it and it works great. Pics attached for effect.

Thanks for the input ! looks good!

But the question remains, what was the starting weight of the guitar before the routing?

Starting weight was just over 5.5lbs. It wasn't that it was overweight, but just heavier than I wanted. I wound up with that weird corner toward the bottom because I just kept shaving until I got close.
 

rlefty

Active member
Messages
62
GT1-Reach said:
I just want / wanted to avoid comments like "you can't post this guitar here, it is only a warmoth neck without a warmoth body" or vice versa.

thats what i meant.  :glasses10:

I have a few guitars with Warmoth bodies and Musikraft necks. I don't know what I'd consider them, but I certainly post here :)
 
Top