Switching in a narrower replacement neck - pitfalls

[burgundy]

Hi.

I'm about to embark on my first build, and intent to buy a 1 5/8 Warmoth Strat neck to replace the 1 11/16 on my USA Strat.  The reason for this is just that I find the fretboard too wide to get around smoothly, I have small hands and play thumb-over quite a lot.

I mentioned this to the tech I was going to ask to set it up for me, and he warned me that it's not so simple as that - that trying to put a narrower neck on a body designed for a wider one can result in the strings not fitting the fretboard or pickups, or even the heel not fitting the slot.

I had been under the impression that I could just a get a new nut cut and the string spacing would be ok - does one in fact have to buy a new bridge (if a narrower bridge would even fit)? Also it occurred to me that if the heel is exactly the same size on a 1 5/8 and a 1 11/16, does that mean that the 1 5/8 only starts out narrower and ends up tapering to the same fretboard width? That would seem to forgo any additional ease higher up the neck, which is obviously a crucial area when playing a Strat.

Sorry for what I guess are basic and tedious questions, I'm brand new at this.

 

[Cagey]

You're right, your tech is mostly wrong.

1 5/8" = 26/16" and 1 11/16"= 27/16". In other words, there's only 1/16" difference in the width of the neck at the nut. Both necks will be 2 3/16" at the heel. String spacing at the bridge is probably 2 1/16" to 2 1/8". I don't feel like doing the math, but the amount of string spacing change at the 22nd fret resulting from that nut width change is going to be so small it's highly unlikely you'll even notice it.

Far be it from me to try to talk you out of a new neck, but honestly, I doubt you're going to gain much comfort from what you're planning to do. Unless, of course, you just want a new neck anyway. In that case, you should certainly buy a size you think you'll like better.

 

[burgundy]

Hey, thanks for the reply.

I actually do need a new neck anyway because the original has a serious problem with the truss rod, which has sunk into the wood (out of warranty) and now apparently won't move without the risk of cracking and requiring a massive, expensive surgical operation to fix.

As I felt the American Standard was too wide and kind of prefer the look of all-maple to Rosewood, I figured I'd just get a new one with the narrower fretboard. I remember playing various Mexicans and Squiers that were much more comfortable/fluid to play, and I believe they're closer to 1 5/8. I also gather Warmoth Standard Thins are slimmer profiled generally, so figure that also allows more scope for easy movement with small hands.

The only other option is I suppose this 1 1/2 or 38mm nut option, but that just sounds cramped as hell and not much fun to play.

 

[burgundy]

Although I am beginning to wonder whether "nut width" is actually an indicator of what I think it is.. I took it to mean just wider/narrower fretboard in general but like I said it's dawning on me that maybe there's no way of having a narrower board up the neck on a body meant for an AmStd

 

[CrazyGrain]

I hate to disagree with Cagey (hey man, still love the strat! thanks again!) but I think you might be able to find what you are looking for. My first w superstrat has a 1 11/16" nut and I just put together a second (used parts, just slapped everything together and it turned out great) with a 1 3/4" nut width. I definitely feel the difference. So much so that I'm wondering if the guy was wrong when he told me it has the standard thin profile. Regardless, it's a great feeling neck and I'm going with the larger width from now on.

I'd advise you (or anyone really) to buy and experiment with used pieces. That way you can really hone in on what specs you like and then do a custom build when you really know what you want.

 

[Cagey]

Although I am beginning to wonder whether "nut width" is actually an indicator of what I think it is.. I took it to mean just wider/narrower fretboard in general but like I said it's dawning on me that maybe there's no way of having a narrower board up the neck on a body meant for an AmStd

If that's the case, then your tech was right. There's no good way of doing that.

The smallest necks I've played have been on Fender Mustangs, which was originally designed as a student guitar. Very young students, apparently. But, even those had a 1 5/8" nut width. Any narrower than that, and it starts to get difficult to fret individual notes without interfering with adjacent strings. The bigger difference there was the scale length, at 24". Puts the frets noticeably closer together to accommodate a limited reach.

I'd submit that the trouble you're having is due more to technique than any dimensional issue. Hanging your left hand off the neck with your thumb, or using your thumb to fret messes with your hand's geometry and reach. Thumb should be on the back of the neck, or perhaps toward the upper quadrant. If you need the leverage for bending, some guys like to use an offset contour like the SRV or Eric Clapton style, as seen here.

 

[Cagey]

I hate to disagree with Cagey (hey man, still love the strat! thanks again!) but I think you might be able to find what you are looking for. My first w superstrat has a 1 11/16" nut and I just put together a second (used parts, just slapped everything together and it turned out great) with a 1 3/4" nut width. I definitely feel the difference. So much so that I'm wondering if the guy was wrong when he told me it has the standard thin profile. Regardless, it's a great feeling neck and I'm going with the larger width from now on.

I'd advise you (or anyone really) to buy and experiment with used pieces. That way you can really hone in on what specs you like and then do a custom build when you really know what you want.

Good to see you back! Been keeping busy?

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Burgundy is trying to get narrower/thinner, not wider/thicker.

Good advice on trying multiple necks, but not everybody has the opportunity to do that. Around here, there are thousands of guitars within miles you can fondle, but what if you live in McBee, SC, pop. 834?

 

[CrazyGrain]

Good to see you back! Been keeping busy?

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Burgundy is trying to get narrower/thinner, not wider/thicker.

Good advice on trying multiple necks, but not everybody has the opportunity to do that. Around here, there are thousands of guitars within miles you can fondle, but what if you live in McBee, SC, pop. 834?

Yeah, not too bad. Been lurking here every once in a while though.

Well, I know he is going "one size down" so to speak...I went one size up and felt the difference. Just assuming it would be the same going in the other direction. I know anything smaller than 1 11/16 feels cramped to me near the nut.

As far as buying/trying used...tons of stuff on ebay, tgp and other forums. Shipping is cheap on git parts...buy at the right price, sell for the same or profit down the road. Not to mention, diy with used parts isn't so worrisome for folks without the skills or tools. I know I never would have tried to put together the guitar I sent you. This second one though...used parts that had been put together before. Went together easy, cost around $600 and is a design I was going to build anyway at some point. Now that I know it sounds great and plays well, I'm willing to drop some more money in it. Probably gonna send it out for some Cagey love.  :icon_biggrin:

 

[Cagey]

Yeah, I've managed to do well with a few parts off eBay and from private sales/trades.

Now that I know it sounds great and plays well, I'm willing to drop some more money in it. Probably gonna send it out for some Cagey love.  :icon_biggrin:

I'll look forward to that. Got a very pretty candy apple red Tele coming off the bench in the next couple days, so I'll be freed up again.

 

[Fat Pete]

+1 on trying different necks. It's surprising how different that 1/16" can feel - I'm 6'2" and certainly don't have small hands but still prefer a thin neck - the 2 guitars I've played the most have necks slightly less than 1 5/8". It's what I'm used to and I'm too old and ugly to be interested in trying to re-educate myself now.

I also play thumb-over (though I can move my hand to a more 'correct' position when necessary) and find a soft v, like Warmoth's Clapton contour, very comfortable for this but can imagine many people hating it.

It looks to me like that 1/16" difference turns into about 1/50" by the time you get to the 12th fret, so if you really need a noticeably thinner neck in the higher register you may be a bit stuck as far as off-the-shelf offerings are concerned - unless you fancy a Rickenbacker.

 

[Fat Pete]

Got a very pretty candy apple red Tele coming off the bench in the next couple days, so I'll be freed up again.

Meant to say, like the sound of this Tele.  Any chance we'll get to see it?

 

[burgundy]

I had vaguely hoped the 10-16 compound radius would make playing up the neck easier with small hands too - I haven't tried one yet but the idea sounds great, I imagine it makes it easier to play with smaller/lighter finger movements, if that makes sense

 

[Cagey]

Got a very pretty candy apple red Tele coming off the bench in the next couple days, so I'll be freed up again. 

Meant to say, like the sound of this Tele.  Any chance we'll get to see it?

Lighting isn't good, but here's some shots...

 

[Cagey]

It's not real obvious from the pics, but that control plate is a hot mess. That's getting replaced before shipping.

The pickup is a Lace Alumitone, with a "coil cut" on the tone control pot as a push/pull. Also not obvious, but I blacked out the cavity with some alcohol-based black dye because the thing is essentially just a frame, so you could see too much in the gaps.

The Vibrato unit is a Kahler 7300C, which turns out to be a pretty nice unit. Very smooth, and the roller saddles don't move so it'll stay intonated. You also don't need to route the hell out of the body - it's just a small cavity below it.

 

[Cagey]

I had vaguely hoped the 10-16 compound radius would make playing up the neck easier with small hands too - I haven't tried one yet but the idea sounds great, I imagine it makes it easier to play with smaller/lighter finger movements, if that makes sense

The compound radius does make for neck that's easier to play, but it makes little or no difference as far as hand size is concerned. What it does is make the fretboard a bit more round in the lower registers toward the nut where you're more likely to be playing chords. As you move up the neck, it gets flatter where you're more likely to be playing lead/melody notes, bending strings, manual vibrato, etc. With the larger radius, you can play faster and your bends won't fret out. The effect is subtle, but once you get used to it you can't live without it.