String Trees, Telecasters, and Barbara Mandrell.

[vikingred]

Read some that say waste of time, etc.

To tree or not to tree?  In a sentence or two.  Why or why not.  Seriously.

 

[line6man]

You are not providing any information. It depends entirely on how well you cut your nut, and what kind of headstock you have.

 

[vikingred]

Strat headtocks, locking tuners, TUSQ XL nuts, with the best of nut cuttin.  Hardtails or Wilkinsons at the bridge.

 

[Perry Combover]

I always get staggered tuners (Schallers).  Never had a problem using those with a properly slotted nut.

 

[vikingred]

I always get staggered tuners (Schallers).  Never had a problem using those with a properly slotted nut.

Fill me in, I'm a moron.  What are staggered tuners?  I have Schaller locking tuners from Warmoth.  And by "never had a problem" I assume you mean you don't use string trees?

 

[Perry Combover]

So the first 3 are standard height, but the the last 3 are shorter and pull the strings closer to the peg face.

http://unofficialwarmoth.com/index.php?topic=20507.msg303548#msg303548

6 pictures down will give you a good look at em.

 

[line6man]

Strat headtocks, locking tuners, TUSQ XL nuts, with the best of nut cuttin.  Hardtails or Wilkinsons at the bridge.

Then no, you probably won't need a string retainer. But you will find out for sure when you set up the guitar.

 

[line6man]

I always get staggered tuners (Schallers).  Never had a problem using those with a properly slotted nut.

Fill me in, I'm a moron.  What are staggered tuners?  I have Schaller locking tuners from Warmoth.  And by "never had a problem" I assume you mean you don't use string trees?

 

[vikingred]

Mine are NOT staggered tuners then.  They are Schaller Locking M6's.  So I guess I need a tree?

 

[Verne Bunsen]

It's been my experience that you can get away without them if you have staggered-height tuners, but that you'll typically need them if you don't. But the best bet is to string it up and see. You gotta have strings on the guitar to position the thing anyway, so just play it for a bit first. The things to look/listen for will be the e/b strings not ringing out properly and sympathetic vibration of the e/b string lengths behind the nut, both of which I believe are functions of the shallower break angle.

 

[vikingred]

It's been my experience that you can get away without them if you have staggered-height tuners, but that you'll typically need them if you don't. But the best bet is to string it up and see. You gotta have strings on the guitar to position the thing anyway, so just play it for a bit first. The things to look/listen for will be the e/b strings not ringing out properly and sympathetic vibration of the e/b string lengths behind the nut, both of which I believe are functions of the shallower break angle.

^^^This.  Thanks Verne.

 

[Glimmer]

I ordered the Schaller mini locking tuners from Warmoth. Thought they were staggered but turns out they're not. Will probably fit a tree.

 

[Surf n Music]

If you order an actual set from schaller they come staggered. I think Warmoth sells them in singles so they are all a standard length. My set of schallers from the factory are staggered. 

 

[vikingred]

Hey Mods, how about doing a STICKY THREAD on warnings about certain hardware from Warmoth.  This is at least the 3rd disappointment for me.  I could care less about the money, it's my TIME wasted.  Also, with this situation, I've already chosen the Wilkinson rout, I NEVER would have, had I known about the gold tone mismatch.  I am a detail oriented MF, but hey, shouldn't we be?  Like the rattling posts/inserts in the FR.  The mini locking Schallers not being staggered, etc.  :-\

 

[Glimmer]

If you order an actual set from schaller they come staggered. I think Warmoth sells them in singles so they are all a standard length. My set of schallers from the factory are staggered.

Hmmm. Mine won't ship until the neck's ready, and that's going to be a few weeks. Wonder if I should cancel them and get them from Schaller directly...  :icon_scratch:

 

[Glimmer]

Just looked into it a bit more. Seems that, unlike the Gotohs above, Schallers are not staggered proportionately; string shafts 6–4 are "normal" height, 3–1 shorter:

Think I might actually prefer them all being the same height.

And as per the above comments saying either staggered tuners or trees, FWIW here's a pic with both:

(Those are Fender staggered locking tuners BTW)


EDIT: Sorry – just reread the thread and noticed that Perry Combover pointed out the 2 different shaft heights above...

 

[Geekydad]

I made sure my neck had an angled headstock, just so I didn't have to deal with string trees.

 

[stratamania]

The hipshot tuners I tend to use are staggered and are three different heights. They fit the schaller holes.

The reason for staggered tuners is to achieve a reasonably consistent break angle across the nut on a non angled headstock.

Avoiding string trees gives an advantage of one less friction point where a string can hang  during Trem usage.

One of my Fenders came stock with two string trees and I removed both... However the top E during a solo one time popped out of the nut so one tree has gone back on.

String trees are really an easy answer to a design that isn't perfect to start with.

The Musicman headstock doesn't use string trees, but is in a 4 + 2 configuration. It's a much better type of solution. Unfortunately it's patented and defended.

 

[vikingred]

I think I'm prolly gonna need them by the looks of things.  I ordered this set off fleabay:

As far as placement, I'm going to have to research around.  God I hate drilling into this beautiful Canary headstock!

 

[vikingred]

I am going to agonize for hours over the placement of these.  They're going on a canary vintage strat headstock.  I do know they go UNDER the strings.  But, but, but, where?  Template?  Guess?  No, I'm not going to my local tech.  I insist on doing it myself!  I guess I could look at internet pics....  :help: