"Stealthing" a pup under the pickguard: NOOB to this idea

[OzziePete]

Fender used to do it, but quit doing it.  There has to be a reason.  It's no secret Leo was an engineer, so the fact that his engineering side even let him do it in the first place says something about it's functionality.  But why no longer?

But as with many Fender choices, he was a cheapo in the beginning.  I almost have to wonder if cutting a pickguard was too labor intensive in his eyes.  Who knows?

From an engineering perspective, I have been wondering whether the sneaky way of installing the oversized pickups underneath might have prompted the need for a thicker and more sturdier pickguard. Like .120" thick instead of say .090"? Also if that did occur, the other thing they could do is to shave a lamination or two off the pickguard right where the polepieces would hide so that the magnets have least material over them. Take a lamination or two off (say from .120" down to .060") and make the magnets more responsive. But still have the full pickguard thickness around the pickup mounting screws for strength. That would require some nifty planing in the factory, and that would increase labour costs.

 

[Lagavulin]

That's a great idea for Teles!

Neodymium pickups are the ones for this job. They claim to have the highest-strongest magnetic field. Actually they're designed with the larger distance from the strings in mind.

Check these out:
http://www.q-tuner.com/gs.shtml <----ugly but once they're hidden you don't care...
http://www.ballurio.com/BG/BGPickupIndex.shtml


Also as stated above rails can help too as they focus all the strength of the magnetic field to a narrower area. I'd go withthe neodymium ones though.

 

[JaySwear]

http://www.q-tuner.com/gs.shtml <----ugly but once they're hidden you don't care...

i remember seeing those a while ago and thinking they were perfect for the job, but they looks like they're pretty tall. youd have to route out some extra room under the pickguard if so. might not matter to the powertool savvy, but not for me :icon_biggrin: i would love to see it done though!

 

[Lagavulin]

http://www.q-tuner.com/gs.shtml <----ugly but once they're hidden you don't care...

i remember seeing those a while ago and thinking they were perfect for the job, but they looks like they're pretty tall. youd have to route out some extra room under the pickguard if so. might not matter to the powertool savvy, but not for me :icon_biggrin: i would love to see it done though!

Not much taller though. About 1 - 1.5mm taller than a Duncan Hot Stack (they're 20mm tall). I dont' know the pickup holes' depth though.

 

[Cagey]

I just had to measure pickup cavity depth yesterday to do some routing on a Strat body, and it's .750", or 19mm

 

[Lagavulin]

Hmm that makes that you'd need to rout 1mm down to hide a q-tuner under the guard. Unless the Tele routes are deeper.

 

[Cagey]

They may be. Also, Fender's record on production consistency is not unblemished. I'd want to physically measure the actual body I was going to try this with before I committed to anything.

 

[JaySwear]

I'd want to physically measure the actual body I was going to try this with before I committed to anything.

thats what i did, and decided against it. the sound i was going to get was up in the air, no way to tell before committing to it. and the pickup route wasn't near deep enough as it was, so it would need some work to get it under the pickguard. decided it wasn't worth the trouble and went with a good old fashioned 2 pickup tele

 

[Dan025]

on the subject of flux lines and field depth or range it is believed that longer pole pieces will have a deeper narrower field and bar magnet pickups will have a shallower and broader magnetic field. the iron tele base plate is said to push the field upward and broaden it. beveled rod magnets "focus" the field at the string and may make it deeper, but it's all speculation as far as im concerned, i cant see flux lines so it's all a matter of if you believe seymour duncan or who ever. but i can see where they come up with these visualizations and assumptions.

if all of that is true then normal traditional fender pickups might be the best but you wont have high strength magnets unless you can get someone to wind you alnico 8 rod style pups..

you can also get humbuckers with really hot ceramic magnets and forget about the field shape. to keep the guitar from sounding muddy you might want to hybrid a medium/low output pup with a ceramic magnet. you can also have up to 3 magnets under a humbucker for extra strength.

 

[Cagey]

I'd want to physically measure the actual body I was going to try this with before I committed to anything.

thats what i did, and decided against it. the sound i was going to get was up in the air, no way to tell before committing to it. and the pickup route wasn't near deep enough as it was, so it would need some work to get it under the pickguard. decided it wasn't worth the trouble and went with a good old fashioned 2 pickup tele

It's probably for the best. For one thing, exposed pickups on an electric guitar are not a blemish, any more than fingers on people's hands are. Besides, even if you hide them, you're not fooling anyone. For another, there's the loss of adjustment, which can be critical to your tone. Finally, unless heroic measures are taken with the neck and bridge mounting, the strings are going to be quite far away from the pickup, so you're going to have to crank the gain, which will wreck your S/N ratio. Overall, I don't see the point of the whole exercise, other than to be different for difference's sake. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you have to factor in practicality and utility or you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Lagavulin]

I actually find it a cool idea not for fooling anyone or something like that. But for those who want the original look of the Tele but like the middle pu sound too. Also it's helpful for any Tele or Strat player who like the middle sound but the middle pu gets in the way of their pick.

 

[Cagey]

I actually find it a cool idea not for fooling anyone or something like that. But for those who want the original look of the Tele but like the middle pu sound too. Also it's helpful for any Tele or Strat player who like the middle sound but the middle pu gets in the way of their pick.

I can appreciate the appearance issue, although I don't give it much weight. That's just me, though. But, anyone who's having problems with picking because the pickup is in the way needs to seriously examine their technique. Even when I was a grasshopper I didn't have mechanical interference problems with my picking, and I don't think I've ever known anyone who did. I have heard of the problem, though. I've just always dismissed it as being a someone who's likely to be just starting out and barely knows how to tune the thing up, let alone play it.

 

[Lagavulin]

I actually find it a cool idea not for fooling anyone or something like that. But for those who want the original look of the Tele but like the middle pu sound too. Also it's helpful for any Tele or Strat player who like the middle sound but the middle pu gets in the way of their pick.

I can appreciate the appearance issue, although I don't give it much weight. That's just me, though. But, anyone who's having problems with picking because the pickup is in the way needs to seriously examine their technique. Even when I was a grasshopper I didn't have mechanical interference problems with my picking, and I don't think I've ever known anyone who did. I have heard of the problem, though. I've just always dismissed it as being a someone who's likely to be just starting out and barely knows how to tune the thing up, let alone play it.

Yeah it sounds strange to me too. I became aware of that just from a video of the fender custom shop I watched recently. As for the looks............yeah I am a poser from way back.

 

[marthur]

What about putting a sustainer under the pick guard? Does it need to be that close to the strings to work? I'd like a neck and bridge pickup and a sustainer, but i hate the way 3 pup guitars look.

 

[richship]

A Fernandes sustainer wants to be in the neck position and pretty close to the strings. The 101 kit has a combination sustainer driver & single coil that fits in a neck humbucker rout.

 

[OzziePete]

Video of the Maruader: http://gestalta.net/view.php?video=ot_Y4K-ZDSo&feature=youtube_gdata_player&title=Tempera+ispod+moga+pramca

I love the Marauder! So clean looking...
Btw, that video is from a build thread on Offsetguitars.com
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20556&start=210#p454538
That was a fun thread to read when I first found it.

Yes, I don't think the Marauder made it out of the catalog and into real life ......... never seen a genuine Fender Marauder on vid or in any magazine article. This project build was very well done and it pays to take a look at Offset Guitars forum and go through what it took to get it to this stage.

 

[TroubledTreble]

Something like 4 or 6 Marauders ever made it into existence so none never left the factory. In the project from Croatia, the pickups were made using neodymium magnets so it's a bit of a different beast. There is another deviation from the Fender version too if I remember correctly.

Maybe somebody will make a factory correct one someday..

 

[OzziePete]

Something like 4 or 6 Marauders ever made it into existence so none never left the factory. In the project from Croatia, the pickups were made using neodymium magnets so it's a bit of a different beast. There is another deviation from the Fender version too if I remember correctly.

Maybe somebody will make a factory correct one someday..

I believe the weight of the pickups' magnets was an issue wirtht he roiginal manufacture and that bumped up the cost per instrument considerably.....do you knwo much about them? I don't and have steered clear of them, because I thought the idea of stealth pickups was like trying to hide the bleeding obvious to me. I do like what Fender did for the Esquire stealth custom shop guitar though, hiding the extra pickup was sneaky!

 

[TroubledTreble]

Yes the weight of the originals was an issue. I have seen them and they are quite bulky. As far as cost, it would seem like such a small fraction compared to the rest of the guitar, but then again the bean counters were in full effect at the time. Another issue was they tied it to a model that was not the most popular. To many negatives killed the production.