Sizzle

NonsenseTele

Senior member
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8,256
Hey guys!
Have questions again  :( ( with english problems thru guitar again...)

A very "renowed" guitar builder wrote this:
"Rosewood fingerboard on Ash body will give too much sizzle for many players. We would only build such combination if you are positive that this is what you want."

So, as I'm planing to change the body of my strat (maple+rosewood neck, probably Indian) for an Ash body, I have gone to my dictionary again:

Sizzle:  to make the sound of food frying in hot oil: sizzling sausages
Sizzling: 1) very hot: sizzling summer temperatures  2) very exciting: a sizzling love affair

So, WTF means sizzle in the guitar sound? too hot or to bright/muddy/anything??
I asked it because I realized that most of the Strat players that ask for ash body usually go for all maple neck...

Any thoughts?????
Thank you :)
 
R

RLW

Guest
It means that every person who is trying to sell you their "version" of Leo Fender's design is required to have a pet theory as to why theirs sounds better than all the rest. It gets harder every day trying to sift through the horse manure looking for actual facts.
 

jackthehack

Senior member
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5,630
""Rosewood fingerboard on Ash body will give too much sizzle for many players. We would only build such combination if you are positive that this is what you want."

That sound so positively ignorant it must have been wriiten by that Ed Roman fuck
 

Chris of Arabia

Senior member
Messages
376
I must admit, it strikes me as a very odd statement to make. If anything, I'd have thought rosewood would tame any added sizzle bought about from an ash body. If it's true, the just about anything else must make it ultrasizzle...
 

NonsenseTele

Senior member
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8,256
jackthehack said:
""Rosewood fingerboard on Ash body will give too much sizzle for many players. We would only build such combination if you are positive that this is what you want."

That sound so positively ignorant it must have been wriiten by that Ed Roman frick

I've to say that wasn't him... Was a guy with muuuuch more credit, Suhr...
 

NonsenseTele

Senior member
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8,256
So no problem right? Thinking in get a Bare Knuckle Slow Hand set, looking for the tone of Clapton on the music "Riding With The King"
 

T.L.

Senior member
Messages
332
"Sizzle" refers to  the highest frequencies of an electric guitar. Rosewood tames the upper mid-range frequencies, but allows the highs to be heard.

You get more upper-mids from a maple neck with a maple fret-board, also known as "attack",  "twang", or "snap".

I like "sizzle", and prefer rosewood fret-boards, although maple is cool too...


 

imminentG

Senior member
Messages
248
No offense

but I think it's completely ludicrous that somebody used the word "sizzle" to describe the tone of that particular wood combination

or ANY wood combination, for that matter

and if "sizzle" does manage to SOMEHOW legitamitely pertain to tone

I would think it would be a good thing  :laughing7: but that's probably just ME

maybe they're looking to say something about growl-like tendencies, but I would typically attribute that to a PICKUP'S ability to break up well


So it's really not you having english problems  :laughing11:

I'd have to concur with Jack and say that's it's complete ignorance
coupled with incoherent words to describe a theoretical tone



and I would certainly not recommend letting something like THIS stop you
I mean, rosewoods are some of the best materials to make fingerboards out of anyway

resilient
natural oils
great tone
doesnt shrink like ebony
:dontknow:
sounds like an easy choice to me


hope I've helped in SOME way
:guitaristgif:
KEEP PLAYING
 

-CB-

Senior member
Messages
5,427
NonsenseTele said:
A very "renowed" guitar builder wrote this:
"Rosewood fingerboard on Ash body will give too much sizzle for many players. We would only build such combination if you are positive that this is what you want."

1.  Sizzle is the very high frequencies, which may be described also as "brilliance"... which adds clarity and character to your note.

2.  The famous builder is full of poo <-- bs, horseapples, full of prunes, ca-ca, turds, dog-dirt, etc.

The number one tone shaper except for pickups, is the neck wood type.  Mahogany, maple, goncalo, walnut, rosewood, ebony, canary... etc.  They all sound the different.

Number two is probably even between solid vs thinline and neck wood contour.  Yes thinlines are warmer when all other things are exactly the same.  Yes thick necks have more mids and upper mids than skinny necks.  If you are using a thinline, then body wood matters more... call it reason two and a half.  Solids get less change in tone from body wood.  That is, alder telecasters,and ash telecasters - all else being the same - do sound different, but not hugely different...its very subtle.

Number three is the electronics you use, pot selection, capacitor selection

Number four is the string type you use

Then you can get into all the rest, including fretboard wood, fret material, bridge type, saddle type... color of the knobs, which case you use, what day the guitar was built and during what phase of the moon etc etc etc.

In all my dealings, and having the luxury of having tried the SAME body and pickups with different necks, absolutely... #1 is neck wood, without question.  Way more than body wood.  I've listed my opinion on this a few times, might have changed the order a little... but never taking neck wood type off the #1 tone shaping spot, besides pickup selection.

Changing fretboard type only... all else being exactly the same... is not a huge tone shaper.  You'll get more change in tone, sizzle, snap... attack... by changing the brand and type of strings you use.  To make that claim, as the famous guy did, without considering pickup selection is just arrogant.
 

T.L.

Senior member
Messages
332
It's not ludicrous at all. The term is derived from the fact that those high frequencies seem to "sizzle" when coming from an overdriven amplifier. The term would not apply to a clean setting. Maple limits those ultra-high frequencies while at the same time accentuating the upper mids...
 

tfarny

Senior member
Messages
4,481
Can I just point out that most strats built today have ash bodies and rosewood fingerboards? You're talking about one of the most standard wood combos around.
 

DiMitriR33

Senior member
Messages
604
it is ludicrous! 1.they put tone controls on guitars for a reason. 2. where is your sorce? do you have a chart of different fingerbord woods and the harmonics they produce? 3. the fret board doesn't significantly affect stiffness or mass so it has little to do with how it resonates, so the difference has to be in the strings and how the vibrations are coupled to the neck. so the frets are a factor too but the shape of the frets makes a bigger difference than the material in my opinion.
you realize to say that rosewood definitively has that great effect on the sound you need to test it on hundreds or thousands of necks all with brand new strings of the same brand, bolted to the same body and analyze the sound with sensitive equipment to make it statistically significant.

even if it does make a difference you still go back to the tone control argument.

 

T.L.

Senior member
Messages
332
DiMitriR33 said:
it is ludicrous! 1.they put tone controls on guitars for a reason. 2. where is your sorce? do you have a chart of different fingerbord woods and the harmonics they produce? 3. the fret board doesn't significantly affect stiffness or mass so it has little to do with how it resonates, so the difference has to be in the strings and how the vibrations are coupled to the neck. so the frets are a factor too but the shape of the frets makes a bigger difference than the material in my opinion.
you realize to say that rosewood definitively has that great effect on the sound you need to test it on hundreds or thousands of necks all with brand new strings of the same brand, bolted to the same body and analyze the sound with sensitive equipment to make it statistically significant.

even if it does make a difference you still go back to the tone control argument.

My Source? I don't remember where I read it, but my personal experience is ALSO a source for me, and I have been playing guitar for 23 years.  It is a well-known FACT in the guitar-building business and community that what I said is true. If you don't believe it, fine, but you are among a very small minority of people calling it "ludicrous". Ask Tom Anderson, ask John Suhr, ask any of the big custom guitar-builders. Ask most famous players.

By the way, my guitars have no tone controls. I have no use for them...
 

dbw

Senior member
Messages
4,531
Well, as I'm betting Nonsense is planning on having at least one tone control on his guitar, he can always roll off excess sizzle.

Edit:  A quick Google reveals that the source of Nonsense's quote is John Suhr.  I wish we could get him to weigh in here...
 

-CB-

Senior member
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5,427
T.L. said:
Rosewood tames the upper mid-range frequencies, but allows the highs to be heard.


Oh, I don't need anyone famous to tell me this is just not the case.  I just don't find that true at all.

Trying all maple, versus maple and rosewood, same contour, same frets, same finish (except of course the maple also had a finish on the fretboard), virtually no difference in tone.  Thats on a Fender 52ri Tele, on a mahogany thinline with 52ri pickups, on another with 52ri bridge and 57classic neck pickups, and an all (hard) maple tele with 57Classic and 57Classic plus pickups.  In fact, I also tried, maple with pau ferro, and a goncalo "total vintage" neck (no cap, all maple).  The four maple necks all sounded so close to being the same on each guitar that it was only a matter of look and feel to decide which to use.  The goncalo (same contour) was warmer by far.  So, two maple necks, one maple rosewood, one maple pau-ferro (dark, dense).  No real tone changes. 

Choose the fretboard for looks, feel, contrast, personal preference, but not because its gonna make a huge (or really any) difference in tone when the neck wood remains the same.

 

T.L.

Senior member
Messages
332
Well, MOST players KNOW that there definitely IS a difference in tone regarding fret-board material. Eric Johnson comes to mind as someone who could hear the difference and tell you. Perhaps your ears don't hear it, or your brain doesn't process it, but to say they all sound the same is ridiculous. Obviously there are many other factors involved in a particular guitar's tone, but you cannot logically discount fret-board material...
 

-CB-

Senior member
Messages
5,427
Character assassination is not a valid rebuttal, except in internet forums, whereupon:

1. First a famous and noted reference is used.
2. The member is made out to have some deficiency
3. The "everyone knows" card comes into play
4. And the "obviously..." card follows.

This is the premise of The Emperors New Clothes, Tone-Pro's, underwrapping of strings on a stop bar, and playing cards hitting the spokes of your bicycle (to go faster). 


 

tfarny

Senior member
Messages
4,481
TL, before you go off, let's recap the logic of this a bit:
CB, who has about 2000 posts on every conceivable technical and other guitar topic, and basically could design the Starship Enterprise or at least build you a wicked tube amp from scratch, has owned and swapped necks on his own guitars looking for these sound differences, and couldn't hear them. You counter by saying that Eric Johnson, IF he were around here, WOULD tell you that CB is wrong and besides everyone knows xy and z.

I have the feeling that CB's take has more scientific rigor than just about anything you'll read on the internet regarding tone. In fact, this forum is exactly the forum where bunk like 'sizzle' gets actually tested out, because these guys own ridiculous numbers of fine guitars and are fanatics about the details of them. Since the 'guitar tone' debate is almost entirely comprised of people repeating claims off of manufacturer's and retailers websites, I'd say CB's and others words, based on personal experience, are worth a respectful listen. This is not the 'random website of tone', but in fact nearly everybody on here is a guitar builder as well as player.
 
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