Signature guitar - artists cut

[AgentPotato]

I was talking to friend yesterday and we were wondering if an artist gets money for every sold unit of his signature guitar. And if they do, how much is it?
Or do they get a one time payment, or simply the reputation that comes with it?

Since there are many smart people here, I hope someone might be able to answer

 

[Cagey]

I'll bet if you asked 100 different artists with endorsement deals you'd get 100 different answers. The rest of us can only speculate.

 

[bagman67]

I agree with Cagey.  Each endorsement deal is negotiated separately.


I would add:


1.  If I am a manufacturer, I want the artist whose endorsement I am buying to feel motivated to actually play the axes that have his name on it  and to push them hard to the guitar-buying public - so yeah, give the artist a little less up front, and more of the back end on a per-units-sold basis.


2.  If I am an artist endorsing a product, I want the manufacturer to build a guitar I'll actually be happy to play and recommend - but if there are QC issues down the line over which I have no control since I'm not in the manufacturing process, I don't want to lose income on the per-units-sold clause when quality goes in the toilet, so I wan't more up front.


It's really a question of who's risking more and who has the best shot at making sure the deal is a success for all involved - and what the target market is.  Steve Vai and Eddie Van Halen sell a lot of guitars and other gear, and generally have associated themselves with manufacturers who are committed to certain standards of quality.  They can also afford and are accustomed to employing high-priced attorneys to protect their interests.  There may be quite substantial minimum payments due to the artist under their contracts just to get their name on the product, with kickers for more gear sold.


On the other hand, I wouldn't exactly sprint down to Walmart to pick up the Paul Stanley-endorsed Washburn axe precisely because it's aimed at the low end of the market - it's fan club gear (e.g., a toy), not a serious musical instrument.  But it seems likely Paul Stanley made a fair pile off that endorsement as well.

 

[Orpheo]

I don't pay my artists a single dime. I can't afford that. But... these guys are super happy with their guitar and are happy to promote me.

 

[Cagey]

I understand Fractal Audio (Axe Fx, etc.) doesn't pay endorsements or give equipment away, either. Cliff says he doesn't believe in that nonsense. Yet, he has a list of very high-profile artists as long as your arm who allow pictures, give quotes, actually use the stuff, etc.

If your stuff is good, it'll stand on its own merits and doesn't require bribery for promotion.

 

[swarfrat]

I suppose its also depends on if your name is "I play guitar for a one hit bit in a genre you never heard of but might recognize my song if you heard it on ye radio" or Les Paul.

 

[stubhead]

It seems like a great temptation for rising and/or risen rock stars to use all kinds of different guitars. It makes sense in the studios. But when Joe Perry changes guitars every single song? Between all his amps and the PA system, I'm dead-certain that the actual tone of a decent guitar can be easily re-jiggered to occupy the place in the mix that it belongs in. So I can't help but think that it's more part of the show, along with the fashions and faces and whatever crap's hanging around his neck. But when John Fogerty does it, it's because he's just a (big) happy little kid, who gets to play with all his toys for a living! He's so happy, it makes me happy.

One thing I noticed a long time back, when a guitarist graduated from the merely-really-great category to the really-really-great virtuoso level, they use less and less guitars. You get to the level of your McLaughlins and Becks and Trucks, they prefer to really dig into ONE guitar at a time and squeeze all they can out of it. Sonny Landreth uses four-to-six tunings per show, Keith Richards, Eric Johnson and many others have the need for a basic Gibson/Fender split-up... but I'd bet yer left ear that Landreth keeps the same tuning on each different guitar through a whole tour, just to help with the exploding-head WHERE-the hell-AM-I stage syndrome.

Another thing I noticed, Steve Vai and Steve Morse and Jeff Beck and Santana and and and a bunch of others, when using their "factory"-endorsement guitar - they keep on playing the exact same, early, built-by-ghosts prototype till the thing finally just falls apart. And, when they say "You can walk into any music store and any one of my signature models is exactly like what I'm playing!" (?)(!)(?) - they're required to say that by the aliens who kidnapped them in their flying saucer and surgically implanted the "Ibanez" or "Fender" or "Music Man" chip. Dire consequences await....

And I'll bet your right ear that, moreso than money, the reason a star will stick with Music Man or PRS or Fender is because they get EXQUISITE guitars, maintainence, and emergency responses. You think Steve Morse will drop the $300 of his own money that it takes for an absolutely top of the line level&crown&polish from Joe Glaser or Mike Lipe or such? Not when he has Sterling Ball on the speed dial. And if Carlos Santana drops his guitar into the swimming pool, it'll be Paul Reed Smith who delivers the replacement. And you may squirm with mirth about the trials of Gibson, but according to Joe Bonamassa & Warren Haynes - they make GREAT guitars. Well. Ummm... yah? :toothy12:

"Hi! I'm Warren Haynes... would you guys mind too much if I played a Les Paul on tour with the Allman Brothers?"

The full-frontal full-page ads in the guitar magazines, month after month after month, certainly helps keep the elder statesman in people's minds, too; in fact, they may be the onl... well mama always said if you can't say something nice, shut yer yap. (Q) What's the greatest song Carlos Santana has written in the past 15 years? The last 25 years?

The last THIRTY-EIGHT YEARS?!?*


*(whew- just snorked "Europa" in under the wire, there. :toothy12

 

[Cagey]

And I'll bet your right ear that, moreso than money, the reason a star will stick with Music Man or PRS or Fender is because they get EXQUISITE guitars, maintainence, and emergency responses.

I'll bet that's true. Those companies have resources. I'd put my necks up against any of the famous setup guys, but if I did one for Eric Johnson and he called me at 7pm before a concert needing some special service, there'd be little I could do to help him. So, I'm useless. Fender? They could have a guy with all sorts of equipment, tools and talent on a plane wheels up in 12 minutes.

Oh, and thanks for reminding me about "Europa". Excellent piece of work.

 

[swarfrat]

What's the greatest song Carlos Santana has written in the past 15 years? The last 25 years?

The last THIRTY-EIGHT YEARS?!?*

I find it highly ironic that Santanna is most famous for a song Mick Fleetwood wrote. AND he tried to sue Budweiser a few years ago for trying to sound like him in a commercial. But... I actually liked Smooth. It's another one of those songs that I think 99% of people singing along with it never really "get", (like the people who have "You've lost that loving feeling" at their wedding reception dance music).

 

[Day-mun]

...like the people who have "You've lost that loving feeling" at their wedding reception dance music.

OMG! Yes, them... WTF?  :doh:

 

[DangerousR6]

If your stuff is good, it'll stand on its own merits and doesn't require bribery for promotion.

That's it in a nutshell..The product should speak for itself. And there is no better promotion than from the masses, because everyone know the stars are paid endorsers. So it's hard(at least for me) to take their word at face value.

And if you really delve deep into some big name players and the guitars they endorse, you'll find they actually have custom builders (ghost builders) make the guitars they use with the endorser name branded on them..

 

[Re-Pete]

I'd agree that there's 100 different ways that an artist and a manufacturer come to produce an artist's signature model.

You would like to think that the artist gets a cut of every guitar sold either in actual royalty $$, and/or free services from the guitar manufacturer, such as VIP delivery, free repairs, free 'XX" number of said signature guitars per year etc... But some musicians are very poor business people too.

It's also what's behind the motivation for the artist to go commercial.

Maybe a deal comes from a need from the artist to put his old & trusted axe in the studio at home and wants something for the road...the need will lead them to the company & talks will lead to a deal. I'd bet there's been plenty of times that the manufacturers have not been aware that the artist was in a frame of mind to endorse one of their products.

Obviously if you are going to get a deal for Neil Young to endorse a  Gibson Les Paul "Old Black" model (hopefully not about to fall apart like his!), then Gibson are going to have to break open a few of their family piggy banks to afford him. Ditto with a Fender Bruce Springsteen Esquire. There are some artists who probably feel it's a bad move to make.

 

[Re-Pete]

What's the greatest song Carlos Santana has written in the past 15 years? The last 25 years?

The last THIRTY-EIGHT YEARS?!?*

I find it highly ironic that Santanna is most famous for a song Mick Fleetwood wrote.

If you are referring to "Black Magic Woman", that was written by Peter Green when he was in Fleetwood Mac. Mick Fleetwood did not get any credit for it's writing, if he was involved at all. Fleetwood Mac would still play "Black Magic Woman" after Peter Green had left the band. Carlos recorded his version of "Black Magic Woman" only a few years after Fleetwood Mac recorded theirs.

 

[Re-Pete]

And if you really delve deep into some big name players and the guitars they endorse, you'll find they actually have custom builders (ghost builders) make the guitars they use with the endorser name branded on them..

That's been going on since Les Paul put the Gibson brand on his Log, when it was really an Epiphone cut in half for the project. At that stage, Gibson had not bought out Epiphone (early 1950s).
Look around your own house though. IF you made it really big in music & the gee-tar companies came a running with endorsements (and contracts with real money involved), wouldn't you be quick to slap a "Gretsch" logo on that Billy-Bo "custom" you have? I know I'd happily slap a F--der sticker on my No.1 Tele if the price was right. (Just so long as they replicated the same thing under their logo for the masses).  :toothy11:  :icon_thumright:

 

[DangerousR6]

And if you really delve deep into some big name players and the guitars they endorse, you'll find they actually have custom builders (ghost builders) make the guitars they use with the endorser name branded on them..

That's been going on since Les Paul put the Gibson brand on his Log, when it was really an Epiphone cut in half for the project. At that stage, Gibson had not bought out Epiphone (early 1950s).
Look around your own house though. IF you made it really big in music & the gee-tar companies came a running with endorsements (and contracts with real money involved), wouldn't you be quick to slap a "Gretsch" logo on that Billy-Bo "custom" you have? I know I'd happily slap a F--der sticker on my No.1 Tele if the price was right. (Just so long as they replicated the same thing under their logo for the masses).  :toothy11:  :icon_thumright:

You're darn tootin' I would... :laughing7:

 

[drewfx]

IME, with the exception of "limited edition" artist signed models, most signature guitars don't seem to be much more expensive than their non-signature brethren with similar characteristics.