Scratch build?

[swarfrat]

Thinking about doing a scratch build. I'm fine with routing bodies and such, never done fretting. I looked around for a donor neck but have some pretty unusual requirements. (20" scale, 1.25" nut, lefty, single cutaway).  It's a toy my son will one day outgrow but will hopefully want to keep forever.  He's seems to have a keen interest in Telecasters and Les Pauls. I'd like it to be the guitar he learns his first chords on. Finding such a short lefty bass was a piece of cake. Finding a short left handed guitar that's not a strat seems to be virtually impossible. And I'm really thinking about a very very narrow neck - I can't play left anyway, might as well make it sized for a 5yo (he's 3 now, but I figure more serious learning is still a little ways off.)

Anyone done a scratch build, or even fretting a slotted neck? I'm thinking about a slotted fingerboard from LMII or Stew-Mac. Cut about 3 frets off the nut end to get the scale where I want it.  I'm also thinking about neck-thru because of the super short scale - just skip routing that joint altogether. What's the minimum outlay for fretting given a general purpose woodshop?

 

[ChristopherG]

My brother makes his own necks for his 3-6 string cigar box guitars. For fretting he just uses a miter box with in improvised depth stop. I think he presses the frets in with some gizmo he made himself. My point here being that depending on how hard you are willing to work and how clever/handy you are the cash outlay can be lower than you think.

 

[Cagey]

You can't just cut a section of fretboard off and change the scale length. The frets have to be spaced properly for that length. So, if you want a 20" scale, you'd have to recalculate where each fret goes before you cut the slots. There's an article on how to do that here.

As for fretting cost, I'd expect to see numbers anywhere between $200 and $300.

 

[swarfrat]

Ah, but you can cut at the nut end. 25.5" scale works out to
25.5 / 24.06 / 22.71 / 21.44 / 20.23  etc... you'd have to make sure you cut the nut slot correctly, but that's it. Think of it as a Saw-Capo.
Tenor Uke fb's are 17 3/32, 19 frets, so I'll probably just use that.

I've tossed out the LP, as it really needs a carved top to look right.

 

[dmraco]

I have done several scratch build that even includes using a 100 year old piece of pine from on old brothel in Pittsburgh.

To that end, I have never done a neck.    I have seen other do it but it can be done with time an patience.  Biggest issue is truss rod and slotting for the frets.  I just have found the necks to be nicer and more cost effective from W.  However there is some satisfaction of creating the whole thing from a hunk of wood.  You cannot put a price on that.

 

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

The truss rod channel is relatively easy, easier to jig prior to cutting the splayed taper.
You can get slotted FB's from Stew Mac, LMI, & a few other vendors to get your feed wet.

 

[swarfrat]

I saw someone using flatsawn boards laminated on edge to make it quarter sawn. I was thinking about doing that - gluing up two 3/4" strips of red oak (stiffer than maple, got some on hand). If I actually do use a truss rod - it seems most uke's don't use them, mandolins are too short, and guitars are too long.  It's mostly just threaded rod though, I suppose I can make or modify one. I got saws and dies.

(And btw - how come nobody else ever thought of adjusting the truss rod through a hole in the BACK!! Don't have to take the strings, pickguard and sometimes even the neck off).

 

[Cagey]

To that end, I have never done a neck.    I have seen other do it but it can be done with time an patience.  Biggest issue is truss rod and slotting for the frets.  I just have found the necks to be nicer and more cost effective from W.  However there is some satisfaction of creating the whole thing from a hunk of wood.  You cannot put a price on that.

That's me. I'll do just about anything short of actually fabricating a neck. Even with necks, I have no problem with fretting, finishing or anything along those lines. But, from scratch? No. Necks, to me, are almost everything on a guitar, and they need to be right. That says "CNC machine", and not some hobby unit for $5K, but a big rascal that can deal with substantial parts. You can certainly do it by hand - it was the only to do it up until not too long ago - but the risk of variation/failure is too high. There are people out there (like Warmoth) who have the process down pat. Why fight that fight? They already have, and can now turn out top-notch product. So, buy raw necks from somebody who's good at them. Finish and fret 'em yourself if you need to, but let them do what they do best.

 

[swarfrat]

I don't think I'd be as excited about trying to make a neck that I COULD buy. It might be a fun project, but I figure the learning curve is probably at least 4 -10 necks. But this one... 1) you can't buy, 2) the expectations are lower, 3) eventually he'll outgrow it anyway and it will be a fun instrument / memento of something dad made him.

Fret slotting is the main thing that worries me. Followed by levelling and dressing. A double acting truss rod is probably way overkill in a neck this small, but I'm kinda worried about getting all that work done and ending up with an unplayable neck if it back bows.

 

[bagman67]

As far as the double-action truss rod is concerned, unless you fab one for yourself, you may have trouble getting your hands on one anyway at the scale length you're contemplating.

 

[Cagey]

Also, with a number of operations on a neck, doing it by hand means building some jigs and buying some tools that you may or may not ever use again. That can get pretty pricey and time-consuming, so unless you're going to do a number of them, that can all be difficult to justify.

That said, it's not always as difficult to justify as it might appear at first. For instance, with finishing work you need a compressor and maybe two or three guns, but at least one. But, when you consider what it costs to get a professional finish done, it doesn't take many instruments to justify the investment in a painting rig. At $350 a shot, 3 bodies gives you about $750 to spend on tools and $300 to spend on materials to hit break-even. After that, finishes start costing you less than $100/ea. not counting labor (which is heavy, make no mistake). That starts to be attractive if it's a serious hobby for you. Plus, you can to it for others and get those $350 paydays. You're probably only making minimum wage, but you can buy more tools. And beer  :icon_biggrin:

 

[swarfrat]

I tell people - my real hobby is making things. All these other hobbies are just to justify the tools and find problems to solve.

Seriously, I wish I could go back to my old job as a manufacturing engineer. Last time I was really happy at a job. But it'd be about a 1/3 pay cut. I'd take it in a heartbeat if I were laid off tomorrow, but it's kind of hard to voluntarily walk out of a job for that kind of pay cut.

My son seems to share this interest. He's very fascinated by the lathe. He's only seen videos and seen things made on it. But it sounds like the coolest invention in the history of mankind to him. (Which is pretty accurate I think.)

 

[Vallhagen]

I say go for it. I like the idea of getting a slotted stewmac fretboard and cut off the first frets. Then i guess the most critical moment is to shape it to it's desired radius.

I like Fletchers videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZSDzBv_rIA . I'm not even close to make my own necks yet, but i have learned a few moments from him, i've done elbow and tummy cuts by hand (the true meaning of elbow grease!).

Cheers

 

[mayfly]

I have done several scratch build that even includes using a 100 year old piece of pine from on old brothel in Pittsburgh.

ok - I just need to have a telecaster with a story like that!!

 

[rapfohl09]

Here is what I made to slot my boards. It is just a miter box, you just have to make sure everything is squared up. I made I think two or three that when I checked the angles afterward werent a solid 90 degrees. I bought my saw from Stewmac, and it came with the depth guide, which when using their box attaches with these two little bolts. I just put two pieces of double sided tape on there and set the depth I wanted and tightened the bolts down, then took them off. If I remember correctly the slot I had to make for the saw was just a hair wider than 3/8". This is important too, you have to get this slot perfect. You want it big enough for the saw to go in and move freely (obviously) but you don't want ANY slop, otherwise you wont get a nice perpendicular cut. Notice the slot I'm not using has NO written next to it, too sloppy. You can see a little drill bit down there at the bottom, that is a pin for the template. Stewmac has some pretty good instructions for how to use the box, so I won't go over all that. I basically just remade their super expensive box out of Lowes materials. I slotted a dozen or so boards and it worked great.

I attached a few other pictures of this neck, it was my best work. If you want I can go over my whole process, but I made very basic necks, nothing too crazy.

 

[dmraco]

I have done several scratch build that even includes using a 100 year old piece of pine from on old brothel in Pittsburgh.

ok - I just need to have a telecaster with a story like that!!

Gives new meaning to "old wood"

 

[Glimmer]

Gives new meaning to "old wood"

What was the old meaning?

???

 

[swarfrat]

Not sure how this went from a thread about instruments for preschoolers to historical  hookers... but

The Rondo sprite is kinda hard to beat for a donor, except for the wide neck (1 11/16" at the nut) and the hideous headstock that's carved kinda deep in the center. The Hadean Uke bass I got him has the same nut width, a more pleasing (and generous for reshaping) headstock, but it's $150, while the Sprite's are on sale for $50 .

(What's with 7.5 lbs on a guitar so obviously targeted to very young kids??)

I'm really kinda liking the 1.25" nut idea though.  Their 1/2 size guitars are really like 23" scale which is too long for now, or I'd just buy one of their lefty strats and make a Tele body for it. I think a scratch build would be easier and more predictable than trying to defret, shave and refret. Ugh.. Not even gonna entertain that idea for crazy talk.

 

[swarfrat]

Aha - now we're getting somewhere - electric mandolins:

http://www.amazon.com/Saga-MT-10-Electric-Mandolin-Kit/dp/B001KMS9RS

Too much, and I'd rather do a 4 string of course (pun intended). But we're getting into super short scales, narrow nuts and suitable string sources. Hmmm.

 

[Cagey]

(What's with 7.5 lbs on a guitar so obviously targeted to very young kids??)

For $50, the body is probably made of MDF, which is pretty heavy stuff.