Quite some info needed here!

[Cpt_Gonzo]

Hi guys,

first time poster, long time reader.
Birthday today, want to start my first Warmoth build because of that.
I have ideas floating around in my had for a long, long time now, and here's what I am plannning:

My own Steve Morse inspired Strat.

My ideas:
Mahogany body + flame maple cap; rear rout
Mahogany neck + ebony fingerboard; flame maple headstock veneer
Cream binding around the body
Diamond Inlays
Warhead or Warmoth peghead (might even try the paddlehead and go the 4:2 EBMM route, give me your opinions!)

What I need to know:
Will Warmoth do things like omitting the string-through-the-body holes? I'm going for the recessed ToM but I'm currently machining my own tailpiece out of brass at work (internship at a precision grindery; necessary for studying engineering here in germany).
I'm planning to mount the two humbucker directly to the wood. The third pickup will be mounted directly to the wood, too, but I need to rout out some extra space for the single coil near the bridge humbucker rout.

Talking about pickups. Two choices here, really. DiMarzio Morse humbuckers and HS3 (thats the original SC in the EBMM Morse) or BKP Alnico Nailbombs + trilogy suite.
I think the Nailbombs will get along with the wood combo posted above.
But I am really not sure how the DiMarzios would handle it.

Can anyone here who has experience with these body (and neck!) woods chime in on how Strats like this will generally sound? Especially interested in how the Mahogany neck influences tone and how far the Ebony brightens things up.

Conversion scale. The wood combo lends itself for this. Do they work properly; how do they affect the tone? I'd imagine a Strat scale will generally brighten things up, so the conversion neck does exactly the opposite?

Last question, If I would go the 4:2 route, where can I get tuners for that design? They're all either 3:3 or 6 in line.

thanks in advance, please move the thread if it's in the wrong section!

 

[line6man]

Ditch the Mahogany (neck) and go with a wood that can be played raw.

Concerning the tuners, either order them individually or choose reversible tuners.

 

[Cpt_Gonzo]

Something like a raw Rosewood neck? How does that sound?

Probably costs much more though. Need to try that with the neck builder.

 

[bagman67]

Counterintuitively, the raw necks usually don't cost any more than the mahogany and maple necks, when you figure in the cost of a finish - and they often cost less.

 

[Cpt_Gonzo]

Yeah thought so, too...after posting. Duh.

My fear is that a Rosewood neck would dampen or "mush" things up. I've heard that it's always a gamble with rosewood necks, more so than with other woods.
And I think Ebony necks would either be too bright or really, really expensive.

 

[bagman67]

I cannot speak very knowledgably about rosewood's tendencies, never having owned one, but a solid ebony neck is indeed a little more pricey.  I've played humbucker-equipped Music Man guitars with rosewood necks in a few shops, and they were not mushy at all.  I've never played an all-ebony neck, but it seems as though it would tend to be bright.  I really like my wenge neck and my canary neck, though, and both of those shaft woods are available at prices that compare favorably to a finished mahogany or maple neck.



But realistically, if you know you're getting a neck that tends to be darker sounding, you can compensate by going to brighter pickups. 

 

[Cpt_Gonzo]

Let's just say I'll stick with Hog/Ebony for now (for now!).

I really liked the BKPs in a friend's Les Paul, so I guess my wood choice would be okay with the Pickups.
But I really have NO experience with Mahogany Strats. I guess the bolt on will change tone, the scale will...

But that's my goal really. Find the sweet spot between Les Paul and Strat.
Any experience with Strats like this? As I said, I'm only judging by imagination here.

 

[Cagey]

The thing to keep in mind with electric guitar woods vs. acoustic woods is that with electrics, everything is subtractive. If you use a lightweight or flexible wood, it will absorb various frequencies depending on the wood's density, grain pattern, mass, etc. Construction also matters - with a Les Paul, almost a third of the neck is buried in the body. Doesn't even matter if it's glued or screwed. Also, with something like a Les Paul, you have a shorter scale length on the strings, which changes their moment and tension. That's all important because the pickups only hear the strings, not the guitar.

A Les Paul also has a lot of mass to it because of its thickness and weight in a small form factor. Lotta inertia there, so there's little absorption of vibration. That in turn results in greater sustain, which is a natural form of compression. Everybody knows what's cool about a Paul is you grab a bar chord and bang it out, and it just goes BRAAAANNNGGG! for about an hour. Gives you time to sing <grin>

That's why it's difficult to get anything to sound like a Les Paul, no matter what it's made out of or what pickups you use. You can get close, but that's it. You're never going to get there.

If you really want to sound like a Paul but would like your guitar to be playable, build a Tele with a conversion neck (24 3/4" scale) and a humbucker in the bridge position. Use some denser wood for the body, like Swamp Ash or better, and whatever you'd like for a neck wood as long as it's thick, like a '59 profile. Put a JB on it at the bridge, and call it a love story.

 

[Tipperman]

If you really want to sound like a Paul but would like your guitar to be playable, build a Tele

:laughing7: I laughed my arse off at the "playable" remark. Agree completely! Also, are you suggesting a tele to someone?!?  :toothy12:

A raw neck is always a good choice when building a custom guitar. Very playable, very comfortable. I build vintage replicas primarily, because of two things:

1: I'm a jerk.

2: I prefer a maple/rosewood or maple/maple neck.

That being said, if you aren't like me (as in using inefficient outdated designs because you know how to work with them, even though you could do better) I'd suggest going with a raw neck. Pau ferro/pau ferro is like having sex. Rosewood/rosewood is better than sex.  :icon_thumright:

Also, as I tell everyone.... BKPs are amazing. Buy them and don't look back. I just ordered Lollars for my Jaguar build, so he may become a new favorite depending on how true to specs they are. BKPs are expensive but make everyone in the crowd shite themselves as soon as you play a barre chord. It's an instant brown note, only nobody minds because they sound so good.

 

[Cagey]

:laughing7: I laughed my arse off at the "playable" remark. Agree completely! Also, are you suggesting a tele to someone?!?  :toothy12:

Yeah, I know. Never thought I'd see the day. But my black carved top Tele is far and away my favorite guitar. Nobody else gets any pets any more. I can't even get excited about finishing some really fine pieces I've got in the chute. There are two VIPs and a Soloist sitting in the closet in their cases just rotting...

The only one I'm worked up about at the moment is the Tele I put together to put the Scartozi bridge on, but I'm still waiting on a brass version since the aluminum one isn't going to work out. That one is gonna be fun because it also has Roadhouse pickup in it I'm dying to hear.

 

[Kostas]

I changed my all rosewood neck in my strat with a maple/p. ferro and I prefer the guitar as it is now. It was good before but it's better now. The maple neck with satin finish feels as good as the three unfinished necks I have played so I wouldn't hesitate to order another finished neck.

For the mahogany strat body I would order a mah/ebony or mah/p. ferro neck with a satin finish. If you want to go with an unfinished neck I suggest a wenge neck. I have it in my mah/maple body LP and I like it.

 

[Steve_Karl]

I've never played a wenge neck but I suspect it has a similar feel to padouk, open grain and all.
I do have a padouk neck and initially, it is somewhat annoying to feel my hand running across the roughness.
I do however, adapt and forget about it.

I also have a bloodwood neck and love it to death. Smooth as silk!

 

[Cpt_Gonzo]

I guess I'll stick with my wood combo then.

Thing is; I don't want it to sound exactly like a Lester. I have my Les paul for that Coming close would be good, but primarily I want a classy looking Strat with more beef, hence the Mahogany. I also love 80s metal and rock, and I think my wood combo would do that quite well, but I wasn't so sure how it all sounds together in the Fender scale and bolt on format. Still unsure there.
Strat because I'm pretty much sold on the design. This would be my fourth Strat, can't bond with Teles (yet I guess) and there's no cream binding option for the Soloist.

As much as I am interested in the tone of the instrument, I'm afraid that I'm rather snobby when it comes to wood and how it looks. I could live with a raw rosewood neck. But all the other raw woods look really...bleh...to me.

Keep on posting, I really enjoy your opinions and ideas.

 

[Cagey]

I've never played a wenge neck but I suspect it has a similar feel to padouk, open grain and all.

Not even close. Wenge has a look and feel all its own, and it's nothing like you'd expect. If you didn't know any better, you'd almost think it wasn't wood. I mean that in a good way, though. It's just unique. Nothing I've ever played is anything like it, so it's on my bucket list.

I agree about the Bloodwood. I do have one of those here, and while I haven't played it yet, I know it's going to be ultra-sexy. It's like red Ebony, if there was such a thing.

 

[AutoBat]

I combined the powers of Wenge & Bloodwood and the result was the recent 8.6 magnitude earthquake near Indonesia.
It's that badass.

 

[Updown]

My ideas:
Mahogany neck + ebony fingerboard; flame maple headstock veneer

I'd say Pau-ferro / Ebony  :icon_biggrin:  followed closely by Wenge / Wenge
But ...
You can't have a Flame Maple headstock veneer on a Raw neck.

So that cuts out the use of a Raw neck if you want that veneer.

 

[Rickgrxbass]

I've never played a wenge neck but I suspect it has a similar feel to padouk, open grain and all.

Not even close. Wenge has a look and feel all its own, and it's nothing like you'd expect. If you didn't know any better, you'd almost think it wasn't wood. I mean that in a good way, though. It's just unique. Nothing I've ever played is anything like it, so it's on my bucket list.

I agree about the Bloodwood. I do have one of those here, and while I haven't played it yet, I know it's going to be ultra-sexy. It's like red Ebony, if there was such a thing.

How brown has your bloodwood gotten? I'm going back and forth on it for a neck, since I love the deep red, but if it fades to a similar brown to padouk, I may go a different route.

 

[Rickgrxbass]

More on-topic, though, I've played a handful of PRS's with rosewood necks, and I much prefer the tone of them to mahogany necks. I wouldn't say it's much warmer (muddier) than mahogany, really. Just get some brighter pickups (which may be why I like PRS's with rosewood- their pup's are like freaking icepicks)

And wenge, yes, is amazing. It feels closest to anodized aluminium. It's not incredibly hard, but it feels like it; although I have seen CNC heads crash and shatter bits on it if not programmed correctly.

 

[MSP]

BKPs tend to be brighter, clearer PUPs than most other brands, so a raw neck that doesn't give as many highs, like rosewood, is actually a good match.  I have a Strat with a solid Brazilian rosewood neck and BKPs and I have the tone set down to about 7 or 8 all the time.  It's too toppy full up. 

I've also played PRS guitars with Indian rosewood necks and I wouldn't say that they're muddy.  They just emphasize different frequencies.  I like the tone of rosewood necks.  I also like the raw padouk neck I have.  Really sweet tones and very nice feel.  Maple is okay.  I'm actually not a fan of mahogany necks, though I may be in a minority.  *shrug*  IMO, the quality of the wood has just about as much an effect on the sound as the species.  Two necks made of the same kind of wood can sound quite different. 

 

[Cagey]

How brown has your bloodwood gotten? I'm going back and forth on it for a neck, since I love the deep red, but if it fades to a similar brown to padouk, I may go a different route.

I've only had it for a few months and it's been put away for 99.9% of that time, so as close as I can tell It hasn't changed at all. I think it's mostly ultraviolet light that'll change it, so the less of that it sees the longer it'll hold its color. But, I know some other woods will darken as a result of being exposed to oxygen (for example, Mahogany and Cherry) so there may be nothing you can do.

I wouldn't worry about it, though. It's such a nice wood that you have to forgive any changes. Whatever color it changes to, it's going to match anything that the original color matched. I mean, it's not going to change from red to green or blue, it's going to turn a darker shade of red or a reddish brown. Kinda like a hot chick getting a tan. Doesn't hurt her appearance at all.