PSA on the CT LP

Not surprising. In fact It's quite surprising Warmoth have been able to produce them for so long.

If it is a legal matter then I'm with Gibson here. The simple fact is that copyright and trademark laws necessitate the copy/trade owner aggressively pursues any person(s) or company which either impeaches, infringes, copies or otherwise tries to do something which may damage that rights claim. If they don't follow up on every single case then they lose their rights to the subject and then absolutely anybody can rip them off as much as they want.

Basically, trademark law is very, very all-or-nothing. You have to either take claims out against everybody and sue them all into the ground or you give up all rights to claim if you miss a single one. So obviously with a big company like Gibson or Fender, who have countless trademarks, that means they have to get pretty trigger-happy with the legal action. It's not a case of a company "whining". They don't have a choice. You protect your IP or you lose all rights to it, it's that simple.

If it's a case of Warmoth facing scaling manufacturing costs, be it wood supply, time, whatever, then that's a shame but equally unsurprising. Cost of manufacture, in all sectors, has tripled over the last five years and even though we're mostly out of recession it's still yet to settle back to anywhere near what it used to be. It costs more to put stuff out while customers demand lower and lower prices. American companies are especially screwed because, well, y'all are the ones that started it. That's what you get when the average citizen has credit debit equal to 138% of their annual income. We in the UK are a little less screwed, but UK luthiers and brands are still struggling. Meanwhile you've got countries like Poland where they don't live off credit anyway, so they've been able to go from strength to strength, creating further competition for US and UK companies.
If I was Warmoth and looking to cull something from the product line to speed up production and lower costs, the Gibson-style parts would be the first things to go.
 
hannaugh said:
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
Half of all Warmoth bodies are carved top LPs?  Doubtful.

If it's all Gibson-based designs, then yes it is a huge chunk of their product line.

My only knowledge is from this thread.  I just take it to mean Carved Top LPs.  No word on flat top LPs or any other Gibson shapes.
 
Bagman67 said:
Speculating wildly here, but so is everyone else:


It could be about scarcity of lumber in dimensions sufficient to do the carved top LP's at a cost that Warmoth is willing to bear.  Which would be expected to jeopardize the VIP's and CT-telecasters, as well, if it is indeed the driving concern.


Just a thought.  Figured wood's not getting any cheaper.

W would increase pricing before stopping the production of one of their very popular products..
 
Judging from the Warmoth today threads, there's a whole lot of Fender maple necks.  The players I meet in the real world that have Warmoth stuff, it is usually a Strat with a Fatback neck.  The pawn shop and used music stores echo the same, a Fender body with a Warmoth neck.  In other words, a whole lotta half Moths.

If the Gibson stuff does go by the wayside, think of all the stuff Warmoth will introduce and develope.  Perhaps carved top Strats, a Starcaster, a maple cap instead of a laminate, new original designs? 
 
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
hannaugh said:
Super Turbo Deluxe Custom said:
Half of all Warmoth bodies are carved top LPs?  Doubtful.

If it's all Gibson-based designs, then yes it is a huge chunk of their product line.

My only knowledge is from this thread.  I just take it to mean Carved Top LPs.  No word on flat top LPs or any other Gibson shapes.

Except the Thunderbird, as was mentioned earlier:

Pelagaard said:
I had a similar response to a Thunderbird question today.
 
hannaugh said:
Except the Thunderbird, as was mentioned earlier:

Thats what I want to know. I already have a CT LP body, and I love the thing (even though it isn't even wired yet!), but I've had a Firebird build planned. I wouldn't have the funds until maybe the end of this year. Will it even still be around?

And if not, and Warmoth has to end any Gibson-esque bodies, what will they be bringing in for new designs?! THAT could be really interesting. I'd totally be all for a PRS-ish singlecut body.
 
ALSO, I dropped my CT LP off just a couple hours ago for the wiring and set-up (so excited!), and the guy had a L5S hanging on the wall. It was so cool! The body shape was absolutely perfect. Now my L5S GAS is back with a vengeance. Will those bodies be gone too? :sad:
 
27453558.jpg


I may have spec'd an LP out.  I'm closing on a house in two weeks, so it's doubtful I'll get to one in time if this is turns out to be true.
 
AutoBat said:

Wow... just wow....  I'm almost speechless.  No need to go break your piggybank or get out the pitchforks, my friends.

There are always new products somewhere in the queue and there is no guarantee we'll never change or eliminate a design.  As has been noted, some designs are legitmately more expensive to produce in terms of manpower or materials.

I've always wanted to build an LP CT and I will when I find that *one* body that totally speaks to me.  I'm not terribly worried that the supply is going to run out on me.  (Then again, if you see a body that totally speaks to you... I'd be more than happy to sell it to you...)
 
Wyliee said:
(Then again, if you see a body that totally speaks to you... I'd be more than happy to sell it to you...)

Your comment made me realize that we have never seen completed photos of the fabled turqoise cat. It's time to spill the beans. Go find the buyer of that body and cajole them until they post pictures please!
 
Bagman67 said:
Speculating wildly here, but so is everyone else:


It could be about scarcity of lumber in dimensions sufficient to do the carved top LP's at a cost that Warmoth is willing to bear.  Which would be expected to jeopardize the VIP's and CT-telecasters, as well, if it is indeed the driving concern.


Just a thought.  Figured wood's not getting any cheaper.
I'd figure this would be more of a reason than any other. If Gibby was going to come down on copies then they'd have to go after all the other manufactures of copies, not just one. And some might say "well it happened with the EB copy", well there's not 10,000 companies making copies of that body either. And I would "assume" that the "W" isn't infringing on patent design based on the fact theirs is a bolt-on and not a set neck. Then too, I'm not a layer.. :dontknow:
 
Wyliee said:
Wow... just wow....  I'm almost speechless.  No need to go break your piggybank or get out the pitchforks, my friends.

There are always new products somewhere in the queue and there is no guarantee we'll never change or eliminate a design.  As has been noted, some designs are legitmately more expensive to produce in terms of manpower or materials.

I've always wanted to build an LP CT and I will when I find that *one* body that totally speaks to me.  I'm not terribly worried that the supply is going to run out on me.  (Then again, if you see a body that totally speaks to you... I'd be more than happy to sell it to you...)

Obtuse communication, and "we can't say, exactly" answers lead to more speculation, not less.

I can understand that there may be some things that can't be talked about explicitly right now, but a little clarity on whether we are talking about resources (or production) issues that apply to, say, all carved tops vs. a potential need to change some designs somewhat for "outside" reasons vs. a need to eliminate said designs entirely would be helpful.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Some of us have projects in our queue that could be affected by this stuff - I have 2 projects that need necks I'm not ready to order yet that could conceivably be affected based on some of the speculation here, and hearing "you need to act soon" without any real details on what, when or why is frustrating.  :tard:
 
Wyliee said:
As has been noted, some designs are legitmately more expensive to produce in terms of manpower or materials.

Hmm.... I would take that to mean it's a production issue, and therefore only certain models, but . . . why the Thunderbird as well?  And if, as was mentioned upthread, that it's not their decision, that would imply legal stuff.
 
Alright, so I got my CT LP already, and I don't really want a Thunderbird... any other types I should pick up now before they disappear? Is the Explorer sticking around? L5S?

I know I'll probably be able to get some of these on eBay afterwards, but I'd rather have my choice now and stash it in a corner til I can afford the rest of the guitar if this is the last chance I'll get.
 
It's hard to imagine that it could be for legal reasons. There are many, *many* more prominent sellers of carved-top Les Paul ripoffs than Warmoth. ESP have their Eclipse series, Schecter have their Solo series, PRS have their SC series; most companies have some or other carved top mahogany single cutaway with two humbuckers, four pots and a 24.75" scale. I also doubt that Gibson would be willing to go down this road again after their legal losses against PRS.
 
Look closer. Schecter's Solo series has a different perimeter shape, a vey different headstock shape and in most cases a different control layout. ESP's Eclipse series has a different cutaway, a thinner body, different headstock and a different control layout; they do make some Eclipses with the Gibson-thickness body and four controls, but they're not allowed to sell them within the Americas and Canada and they've only just got clearance to sell them in the east of the EU. PRS is the same deal.

What Warmoth make do actually match the Gibson shapes much, much closer, especially the headstock.

I don't know if it is a legal issue or not. It may well not be. But if it is, basically what it would boil down to is Warmoth would need to stop offering the Gibson-shaped headstocks and change the Gibson-style bodies to have different perimeters and control layouts; the standard four knobs and toggle switch on a LP, for instance, would no longer be an option.

IP and Trademark law is fun!
 
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