Procedure for a multi-step stain

[phatstats]

Hey ya'll, I went with a Warmoth because a) I have always been an avid hobbier/painter and wanted to build one, and b) I can't get anybody to give me a quote in the budget range for a custom guitar with the finish I want. I am looking to do the ESP Lynch Burst:
https://images.app.goo.gl/bEX7MRGscWekdrP6A

I am going with a flame lam top, and a black korina core. Would like to end up with a natural rear/sides, natural binding, and that as the top. I have two sheets of lower quality flame maple on order to practice on. Through reading and watching I've come up with the following approximate procedure. I'd mostly like feedback as to whether the procedure I've come up with is a reasonable starting point, or if there are totally stupid spots I should omit off the top. I will obviously be practicing/tweaking on the dummy pieces before "doing it live" :

Approach: Start with back grain filling, followed by side masking + clear buildup for natural binding, followed by front, followed by clearing the whole thing

Here is the procedure I was going to test first for the front coat:

Front color:
Materials: transtint green, black, yellow, red, purple
Dilutions:
Dark green- .75 oz green dye .25 oz black dye to 1 pt water
Bright green - 1 oz green dye to 1 pt water
Yellow wipe: .75 oz yellow to .25 oz green to 1 pt water
Spray yellow, red, purple: 1 oz dye to 1 qt water + 10% by volume dewaxed shellac

Mask natural binding and back
Wipe on dark green dye, Wait till dry, Sand to 220 grit deep so only highlights remain, Naptha wipe
Wipe on bright green dye, Wait till dry, Sand to 220 grit a little shallower, Naptha wipe
Wipe on yellow dye, Wait till dry, Sand to 220 grit very superficially, Naptha wipe

Spray sanding sealer, Wait till dry (is this necessary? What material would I use? Waterbase?)

Spray on yellow dye in center only thin coat, Wait till dry

Spray on purple on rim, Wait till dry

Spray red between the two, Wait till dry

Spray on yellow in center thin coat, Wait till dry

Spray on purple rim, Wait till dry

Spray red between the two, Wait till dry

Go over rim one last time with purple
Wait till extremely dry

Following these instructions: https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/online-resources/learn-about-instrument-finishing-and-finish-repair/colortone-liquid-stain-instructions/

Top coat:
Materials: Stew Mac waterbased poly
https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/supplies/finishing-supplies/finishes-and-solvents/colortone-waterbase-finishes/colortone-waterbase-guitar-finish-gloss-top-coat

Remove rear/binding mask
Sand binding and rear lightly to 320 grit
Naptha wipe side/rear, 3 clear poly passes, Wait about 6 hrs

3 clear poly passes, Wait about 6 hours

3 heavier clear poly passes, Wait about 1 day

Sand to 320 grit, Naptha to remove dust, Wet sand to 2000 grit, Polish to mirror

Did I miss anything here? My biggest question is:
1) will using waterbased dye sprays over grain enhancing steps cause the dark green in the grain enhance steps to run? Should there be any sealer used after grain enhancing to prevent this?
2) would I be better off with tinted lacquers than color stains for the yellow, red, and purple? Would these bleed less, or preserve the 3d effect of the maple better?
3) will a waterbased poly top coat cause the stains to bleed? What needs to be done to minimize this? I chose water base because from what I read general advice is "like with like over like" but not really sure!

 

[Sadie-f]

Only change is make would be alcohol based dyes in place of water.

The bleed of already laid down dyes will be minimal anyway, more than zero, far less than visible.

 

[phatstats]

Only change is make would be alcohol based dyes in place of water.

The bleed of already laid down dyes will be minimal anyway, more than zero, far less than visible.

Thanks! I will give it a go using the alcohol-based approach for stew mac instead. Would a sealer after grain enhancing and before color coating be necessary, in your eyes? Second, if using a spirit-based dye, would I also want spirit-based clears or sanding sealer?

 

[Sadie-f]

I'm not an expert on this, however my leaning would be a coat of wax free shellac over the color once you believe it's finished.

 

[dratini357]

I know nothing about stains, so more out of curiosity but:
Are you planning to stain the entirety of the body top with all 3 stain colors? Would that give the alternating yellow and green effect of the flame? I think it's a cool technique if you can control the shades by changing the amount of sanding like you suggested. I'd be careful with yellow/green showing through purple because that might make it look gray-ish.

Also I'd be careful how to achieve spraying yellow in the center only. Typically you would want to start spraying mid-air, but you can't do that because you want the rims to stay clean. A simple mask won't work either because you probably don't want sharp edges. I've accidentally achieved a gradient effect when there was a slight gap between the masking material and the surface of the guitar, but haven't really explored further.

 

[phatstats]

I know nothing about stains, so more out of curiosity but:
Are you planning to stain the entirety of the body top with all 3 stain colors? Would that give the alternating yellow and green effect of the flame? I think it's a cool technique if you can control the shades by changing the amount of sanding like you suggested. I'd be careful with yellow/green showing through purple because that might make it look gray-ish.

Also I'd be careful how to achieve spraying yellow in the center only. Typically you would want to start spraying mid-air, but you can't do that because you want the rims to stay clean. A simple mask won't work either because you probably don't want sharp edges. I've accidentally achieved a gradient effect when there was a slight gap between the masking material and the surface of the guitar, but haven't really explored further.

This has been something I've been thinking about too... for this reason for the spray-staining process for the front, I was actually going to do what I am MOST comfortable with, which is airbrushing for any spray steps using an old Paasche gun from when I used to model build. I think this would afford me some more control.

Can you explain more when you say, "a slight gap between the masking surface and the guitar"? Do you mean something like using a raised paper as a sort of guide? I was thinking this might be a great idea too.. i will perhaps practice this once I get some scrap wood!

 

[dratini357]

Here's a mock of what happened. So as not to waste too much masking tape, I covered most of the target material with paper, and only used masking tape to form the square area, which is where I wanted to paint.

This is just a mock so not exactly how it happened, but as I was moving the wood around, one portion of the masking tape probably came off (mocked by the gap in the masking tape in the pic). Underneath the paper was a nice gradient.

If I were to use this on an actual project, I'd test 1) how much of a gap will give me the right amount of diffraction, 2) how to secure paper mid air, and consistently around the target area so that there's no harsh transition.

 

[phatstats]

Here's a mock of what happened. So as not to waste too much masking tape, I covered most of the target material with paper, and only used masking tape to form the square area, which is where I wanted to paint.

This is just a mock so not exactly how it happened, but as I was moving the wood around, one portion of the masking tape probably came off (mocked by the gap in the masking tape in the pic). Underneath the paper was a nice gradient.

If I were to use this on an actual project, I'd test 1) how much of a gap will give me the right amount of diffraction, 2) how to secure paper mid air, and consistently around the target area so that there's no harsh transition.

Hmm; that's actually an interesting concept; i wonder what would happen if you were to build up layers of paper underneath but backshifted slightly (e.g., so the top piece of paper is overhanaging by about a centimeter, and has maybe 2 or 3 layers of paper underneath it). If you pulled the paper taught and then secured it somehow, you probably wouldn't blow it really either with the gun. Perhaps I'll test this on a scrap and report back once my painting materials get here in a week and a half.