Possible to put a fixed bridge on a body w/back cavity route?

[Disco Scottie]

So many showcase bodies with trem cavity routes. If you order one without routing for a specific trem, is there enough wood there to make it a hardtail? My brain says yes, but my brain is pretty stupid.

 

[swarfrat]

I asked this a few weeks ago, and the answer is no - there's not enough wood under it. Your choices are install and block a trem (I'd go vintage strat trem in this case) or glue a block in the trem cavity if you want to go that route.

 

[Disco Scottie]

I asked this a few weeks ago, and the answer is no - there's not enough wood under it.

Okay, here's where I'm confused. when the trem is mounted, there are screws or posts to hold it down. So there's obviously enough wood for that. Are the studs/screws for a fixed bridge dramatically different? Seems if one would work, so would the other. And some trems are even recessed, which means they can take more wood out and still be able to mount the posts.

I'm wondering if it's a doable thing, but W is just dissuading us since it's so unorthodox. Somebody here has to have some insight on this. I must know the truth...

 

[Jusatele]

it is where a hartail screws down, and where the post for a trem are, they are in different places. A trem needs  a fulcrum point, a hard tail needs to be held down solid

 

[Disco Scottie]

it is where a hartail screws down, and where the post for a trem are, they are in different places. A trem needs  a fulcrum point, a hard tail needs to be held down solid

Yeah, I guess you're right there. Oh wells...

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

I've wondered about this topic as well, and while it's obvious a recessed TOM or Vintage Strat/Tele hardtail/through-body bridge would be out of the question for a body routed for a trem (EDIT: I should specify, trem cavity routed only, the "your choice trem" bodies on the Showcase), I think a toploading hard tail (like the Schaller 475 or this el Cheapo from GFS, among others) might actually work.  Yeah, there'd be rather little wood to grasp, so maybe a backing block in the trem cavity might be necessary, and without the strings through the body, there might be less resonance, but. . . . it's just crazy enough to work.   :icon_thumright:

Will someone be crazy enough to actually try it, that's what I'd like to see.

To anyone reading this with the requisite cash, curiosity, & risk, might as well make it official: I Triple Dog Dare you. :toothy12:

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

Actually, the more I think about it, I think someone needs to do this experiment: FOR SCIENCE!

I'd like to apply for a grant to combine this beauty with this bridge to form some new guitar-like substance of awesome.  I'm sure there's a Guitar Building Science Foundation out there somewhere...

Of course, if I screwed it up, y'all would be well within your rights to kill me for defiling such a beautiful piece of wood.  :-\

 

[Disco Scottie]

I might be willing to step up and guinea pig for everyone. But I'd need someone to offer some assistance, since I have no woodworking skills whatsoever. I would love to try installing this bridge:

No idea how far those posts go into the wood. If it needed an additional piece glued in, that's fine. But I can't do all that fancy stuff.

I am offering this challenge... I just ordered another body today, that as of now is slated to be routed for a six-hole vintage bridge. But I will call first thing in the morning and have them not do it, if someone will offer to help me with this experiment. So who's with me?

EDIT: Appears to be a newer version of the same bridge, with two different intonatable sections:

I have the original one on an UNK guitar, and it's intonation is perfect. I'm also pretty sure the UNK doesn't have an angle to the neck, so it wouldn't be like mounting a TOM on a strat. My two PRS models with their stopbar also are in perfect tune... so what I'm saying is I'm very confident in the bridge. I just need help to make it work in this unique situation.

 

[jay4321]

Just out in a trem bridge and tighten the springs. I have a strat locked down like that and it sounds great

 

[Disco Scottie]

Just out in a trem bridge and tighten the springs. I have a strat locked down like that and it sounds great

Well yeah, that's the obvious and simple answer. But I'm sure there are more than a few people on this board who'd like to know if the undoable can be done. I'm crazy enough to try it.

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

I think you'd have a problem with that bridge, as it's mean to go on an angled pocket instrument.  Also, those studs are meant to go quite deep into the body - at least 1/4"  There's an easy way to eyeball it:  Open the Body builder in 2 separate windows/tabs on your browser and pick either the strat or the telecaster.  Just go through the options until you're at the bridge, then on one, pick a trem, and switch through the various hardtail bridges on the other.  It's not super exact, but it's a decent approximation of where the screw holes for the bridge & the open cavity for the trem will be relative to each other.  That's why I'd suggest the Schaller or another toploading bridge only - because of where the screws would be.

Damn... I just looked at that mahogany strat in the showcase again - under $200! - and there is some serious GAS going on.

 

[JamesL]

I got an Ibanez RG body off of ebay a while back that came routed for a floyd. I've since filled the cavity and drilled it for a gotoh hardtail.

 

[Funky Phil]

http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=148

 

[riverbluff]

I got an Ibanez RG body off of ebay a while back that came routed for a floyd. I've since filled the cavity and drilled it for a gotoh hardtail.

I was thinking along those same lines.  If you got a showcase body and then made a wood plug to fill the cavity (in essences making it a solid body hardtail) then there would be plenty of wood to mount any hardtail bridge to and the body would have all the mass of a hardtail.

 

[Disco Scottie]

http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=148

I've looked at that before. If I got the body without having the top cut open for a trem, that block would have to be custom-shaped to fit, I think. That would probably do it... is there anyone who wants to help me with this? The clock is ticking, I'll have to let W know early, before it's too late and they CUT IT OPEN. <scary music cue>

 

[Disco Scottie]

I think you'd have a problem with that bridge, as it's mean to go on an angled pocket instrument.  Also, those studs are meant to go quite deep into the body - at least 1/4"

You're right... I went and got my UNK out this morning, it's definitely an angled pocket. Don't know why I was thinking it wasn't. However, looking at it gave me another idea - a recessed stopbar routed like a recessed TOM. Isn't that what allows the TOM to be used without an angled pocket? Plus it would look cool and unique.

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

Do it!  The hipshot block should be easy enough to sand down, then a tiny bit of woodglue (not too much), a few minutes on a drill press (following about twice as much time spent measuring & positioning, and then measuring & positioning again), and voila!  I'd gladly offer my skills, but I'd be willing to bet there's other woodworking Jedi that are much stronger in the [luthiery] Force than I.

I think you'd have a problem with that bridge, as it's mean to go on an angled pocket instrument.  Also, those studs are meant to go quite deep into the body - at least 1/2"

Fixed  :toothy11: 

I really think it won't work without major shimming.  Just a rough eyeballing of the stud positioning via the Body Builder makes me think it might be possible that the stud holes for that bridge would miss the trem cavity, but it would be VERY close - I wouldn't risk it.  A flatmount, however, would be a lot more stable, especially if the top hasn't been cut open & there's some wood in the cavity to back it.

I have a few scraps of mahogany from a W body blank I built earlier this year, I think I'll borrow a Strat from someone & see if I can't fashion one myself.  :icon_thumright:

Fortunately, someone bought that precious mahogany strat body on the showcase, otherwise, I'd have to spend my daughter's Christmas present money on GAS relief. 

 

[Disco Scottie]

As much as I want to do this experiment, I don't think I'd commit unless I could use a unique bridge I'm personally favoring. A flatmount would really just be the same as having a blocked trem, but without all the extra work. If I knew 100% we could make the stoptail happen I'd say yes. Not that it matters at this point... by now it might have already been routed.

At least this one will be cool and somewhat different. I haven't seen anyone here who has used the trem I'm planning on. And there's defintely no other Warmoths around with the electronics setup it's gonna get.  :icon_biggrin:

EDIT: I just realized they wouldn't have worked on it yet today. Those dudes are three hours behind me! They're probably just driving to work now.

 

[Hbom]

This may not be feasible but it's an idea I've been kicking for a while.
How about just pouring the cavity full with Zpoxy or Acraglas?
It would fill much more solidly than a carved block.
I even think that done right, I could put release agent on the trem cav. and pop the filler out later if I wanted to.
Probably could cast fillers this way too.
Does that make sense? Or have I been sitting in the fumes too long?

 

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

Did YOU buy that rear-routed mahogany Strat, Scottie?  My sincere congrats in that case!

However: PLEASE, mahogany of that figuring demands to be oiled!  Please oil finish it!  Heck, I've got a 3/4 full bottle of TruOil varnish, I'd do it for you!

I'm still curious to see this done, and I'd want to try myself, but I'm not really in a position to buy a guitar I don't need. I'll build at least 1 guitar for myself this coming year, but I'm wanting a Thinline or hollow LS5, which are - inexplicably  :icon_jokercolor: - rarely routed for trems when put on the showcase.

This may not be feasible but it's an idea I've been kicking for a while.
How about just pouring the cavity full with Zpoxy or Acraglas?
It would fill much more solidly than a carved block.
I even think that done right, I could put release agent on the trem cav. and pop the filler out later if I wanted to.
Probably could cast fillers this way too.
Does that make sense? Or have I been sitting in the fumes too long?

Actually, that would make perfect sense, and would be quite easy to do.  I just don't know if it would resonate as well as wood; might even have the opposite effect - a dead zone right in the center of a guitar body is NOT cool!