playable toy guitars

[swarfrat]

I think I know the answer to this. (Quit whining and enjoy it, he's a toddler, have fun), but...

Someone gave my son a kids toy guitar. He just got it this morning, and he loves it. I didn't think it would bother me, but it does. What's the cheapest "toy" guitar that still holds pitch, and intonates at least through the 1st 7 frets?  I want something that's still firmly in the "toy" category that dad can grab and play a melody on.  We're not doing lessons or anything like that, I'm not really worried about corrupting his technique. 

He's not really old enough for a solid body (doubles as a weapon, requires amplifier), but I want real strings. Otherwise I think toy solidbodies are worlds better instruments than toy acoustics, at least the ones I've seen.  Anyone have suggestions?

 

[bagman67]

I got this one for my boy when he was seven.  He didn't really get into it, but it's a really decent "toy" guitar, which is to say, small enough for a little person, but of sufficient quality that it can be relied upon to, oh, i dunno, stay in tune and not fall apart in your hands.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/yamaha-jr1-mini-folk-guitar


It's 129 bucks from MF, but it is an actual guitar, not a toy.  The tuners aren't great, but they're a damn sight better than what you'll find on your $29 p.o.s. toy.

 

[Steve_Karl]

I don't know what to point you towards but I agree that it should have tune perfectly and intonation should be perfect also. I think playing something that's out of tune would be bad for a child's ear training.
G' luck finding something.

 

[swarfrat]

He's very young, this is still for funsies. The quest is simply an induldgence in dad's OCD. I'm ok with it sounding like crap if it's playable and in tune. I did find a youtube video where someone had actually moved the bridge (by FOUR INCHES) to make it intonate pretty close. Yeah, four inches on an 14" or so scale.  :sad:

The tuners on this one are friction, and there's a phillips screw. I think I can just tighten it down, or I could replace the tuners with a geared tuner. I'm at work now, but I took a look at the photo - I can't tell for sure, because of perspective, but it looks as if my bridge is actually about 2-3" further back than it should be. I kinda figured intonation was a lost cause on this one, but if it will hold tune and play the first few frets. I'll probably tune it to something open.

 

[Surf n Music]

The little Martins and Baby Taylors are pretty nice. Been eyeing a baby Taylor just for camping trips and what not.

 

[Cagey]

Have you considered a mandolin or a ukelele? They range in quality pretty widely, but follow a small design paradigm.

 

[bagman67]

Good point.  Decent (i.e., reasonably playable) ukes can be had for under a Benjamin, and they generally have nylon strings - much easier for wee fingers to fret.  And they're tuned dGBE, which means you can fake it as a guitarist without having to reinvent too much.

 

[swarfrat]

Ok, scale is not too far out (considering). Close enough for ye old proverbial rock n roll.  Yes, this is coming from the guy who was just obsessing about 12 strings having individual saddles a few hours ago.

However, the intonation is way (steps) out because of the nut and bridge. Yeah, some room for improvement here.

The nut and the saddle are both drop in, held on by tension, and both are crazy high. The bridge appears to be screwed through the top via two screws, covered up by the white plastic plugs. If I run out of other hobbies, I can make a new bridge to get my intonation right. Actually a new bridge just to get the bridge height low enough might be in order.

The tuner situation is also a major point (they don't hold tension. period. at all.)  But there's a screw on the back.

In short, I think I can get this puppy 1.7 hecks of a lot closer to playable without doing anything real radical to it. Lower the nut & bridge, put some classical strings on it. Tighten the tuners. I got bigger plans for his first bass. That I might just pull out all the stops. (He loves guitar, but he actually gets more excited about the bass. Which is awesome, we need more bass players, but it's not real conducive to itty bitty hands.)

 

[mrpinter]

This is a subject that's close to home for me as of late. Two of my granddaughters show interest of their own volition in learning to play guitar. The older one (ten) actually does a pretty good job on one of my solid bodies, but it's quite a stretch for her little arm and fretting hand. I gave her four or five easy chords and a tune, and she's really spent some time practicing that until she's pretty good at it.

The ten year old is back with her family in Missouri now, but my six and a half year old granddaughter was paying attention when her cousin was here. Now she wants to learn guitar too. Her reach isn't long enough for her to use both hands on any of my full size guitars, but I put the guitar in her lap and fret chords while she strums them. She's got down: timing, strum patterns, hitting just the appropriate strings for each chord. I'm very impressed. I took her to a local Guitar Center and we tried out beginner guitars. Everything they had was too big except a Martin LX1. So I ordered her one from Chicago Music Exchange (no tax and free shipping - OK I'm cheap). It'll be here come this Tuesday, and I'm going to surprise her with it. Her mother wants me to wait until Christmas with it, but I hope to change her mind on this. I'm really excited about it.

The LX1 seemed to be a pretty nice real instrument for three bills. I just wish it had a narrower nut width than 1 and 11/16" - 1 and 5/8" or even 1 and 1/2" would seem better suited to little hands. And what are they thinking?... they put .013 gauge strings on the things! That makes for maybe a good man's travel guitar, but not anything fit for a little girl. So I ordered a set of Thomastik-Infeld Plectrums in the extra light .010 - .041 set. Shouldn't have to replace them for six months or so.

I'm very excited and eager to see how this will go. I'm going to give her little mini lessons at first, and if it "takes" we'll see about real lessons down the road.

 

[swarfrat]

Yeah, if he were 10 or even 6, I'd be more willing to shell out for real guitars. He's not 2 yet. As for that first bass...

I once had a mini travel guitar. Gave it to my brother when his kids were little. It's gone now. But I saw a bass someone had made from a Squire Mini. Neat, but still too big for some time. However, this might be a fun project for a scratch build without having to take it too seriously. I'm thinking something like the mini I had, but 4 strings, tuned up a fifth or octave from a guitar. And.... remember those Graphtech Ghost saddles I was asking about.... I got this microprocessor about the size of a stick of gum. Basically I'm thinking run an octave down and two octave down signal on the micro (using the Boss OC-2 type flip-flop logic in software  rather than DSP). Mix the octaves down signal back in with the piezos.... and voila. 14" - 18" scale length micro bass guitar. Hoping I can get it done by his next Christmas. Thunder Cricket?

 

[swarfrat]

Cap'n she canna take any more strain...

Project full stop. The thing can't actually seem to maintain more than about 2 strings at "minimum playable pitch". I think tuning all 6 strings in fourths from the lowest note the 6th string can play would be more stress than the neck joint and bridge can handle. 

But I did play some 1 string Ventures basslines on it this morning for my son. I think he's already suspicious, because my guitar is a LOT louder than his. (If the soundhole was big enough, he could play inside the Alvarez.)

 

[swarfrat]

Found this puppy on Amazon:

It's 25.5" scale though, I'd really like to get closer to 20" I think. I did see a Squire Mini guitar conversion to bass, that's still a possibility. Maybe for next christmas.

 

[Dan Dare]

You could try to find him a requinto - it's a half sized Spanish guitar. Being nylon strung, it would be easier on his fingers. Try the 'net - someone must make budget ones. Good luck. Agree it's very important for a youngster to have something playable. If he finds it makes a nice noise and it isn't tough on his hands, he's more inclined to want to play with it.