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OH FOOKE YOU MICROSFT UPDATE

Cagey said:
If you're unaware of Windows exploits, I have to wonder how secure your investment banking machines are.

I'll ignore the slight implication that I'm not very good at my job there. And I'll take that as a "no, I can't show you any examples".

The thing is, it's fine for you to continue thinking that installing Windows is nearly the same thing as deliberately installing a virus. You barely run Windows at all so it's not a good use of your time to keep up to date with its security issues, or to understand the difference between the perceived and actual threat levels. Nothing bad can come of your increased caution - so it makes sense to stick with it.

But like I say, 20 years of working with Windows in environments where security is ridiculously critical means that I do need to know. I need to be able to understand the difference between scaremongering and actual potential damage. I need to know the things that can cause an infection and the things that can "in theory" but never have. Spending massive amounts of time and money protecting against things that the Linux community freak out about when you mention Windows only makes sense if the threat level is more significant than something else. Only when every risk that is more likely has been dealt with do we go on to the more obscure stuff. A much, much bigger problem is stuff like social engineering, people sharing passwords, that kind of thing. In all my working time, I've seen one problem come from a piece of malware (the ILoveYou virus in 2000 - and that was because a user had an admin-rights drive mapped to a live web server). I've seen far more problems that have come from users not being careful enough with their admin level accounts. When you're building systems you can't just not run as admin. Some of the stuff the malware does is stuff we need to do to get those systems in place. (To be honest, though, I've seen very few security problems - maybe 5 or 6 in that time)

So yes, like I say - for an average user with a web browsre and a few applications, Linux probably is a nice easy way to go to ensure security without having to worry too much about exploits (those that are found are fixed quickly from what I can tell). But to think that everyone using Windows is under the same level of threat to their computer's security, regardless of their expertise level, is at best naive and at worst a little condescending. Just because you're the most scared doesn't mean you're the most right.
 
I'm sorry; I didn't mean to imply you didn't know what you're doing.

All I can go by is what I've seen/read over the years, which taught me to get away from Windows. I was a Microsoft thrall for many years - it's a reliable way to make money - but it just got to be too much. I know you can secure those machines - I've done it. But, it's not a trivial task and you have to stay on top of it all the time. Life's too short. It's a fine OS for gamers or front ends to other machines/processes where it won't get exposed to uncontrolled networks, or as a stand-alone machine for some definite-purpose task. But, past that, I'd be wary of using one.
 
I think you're probably right there. I do think my life would be a lot easier if my parents and other relatives used Linux or similar on their machines. Every time I vist them I have to uninstall countless bits of crapware they've "accidentally" installed (ie clicked "Yes" to everything). For me it's just as easy to click "no" for everything which solves 90% of problems, but it'd be nice if they just weren't seeing the message in the first place.

But for me, I guess because of my experience, it's not really an issue. I can deal with it so easily it's like breathing.

edit: and no offence taken; I know the implication was accidental, hence me saying I'd ignore it.  :occasion14:
 
My father in law is a click yes to everything type. After a few nasty doses I decided to take his admin rights away. Now, instead of having to do a major clean-up operation every few months, I have to rdp in to allow adobe and java updates etc on an almost weekly basis. Now, what was my point...
:dontknow:
 
I put a couple relatives and a friend on Linux and they barely knew it. In fact, if it weren't that they were prevented from installing certain Windows-specific things like games, they'd have never known. Firefox looks like Firefox on either system, the world wide wibble looks the same on either system, and so on.
 
Cagey said:
I can't remember the last time I've had to run sudo or set a permission bit. It's probably been a couple years, at least. And I don't run as admin or in root; I just have a user account. Actually, now that I think about it, I can't even remember my root password. This is distressing. I'm going to have to think about this one...

you are right if every program you need is available in the first installation which it very well may be for most computer usage you will not have to do these things. but you may need su or sudo to use apt-get or aptitude or any of the other package installers either command line or graphical. if you download through a browser many distros will change the executable flag to non executable for security reasons. i've had to use that stuff quite a bit modding my android phones. i also need the password to install updates with the distros ive used..
 
mac_pc.png

xkcd to the rescue!
 
However, in fielding IT issues for my luddite parents/grandparents.  I have seen things so messed up that I can't even comprehend what the hell they did to screw it up so bad

Every time I visit them I have to uninstall countless bits of crapware they've "accidentally" installed (ie clicked "Yes" to everything). For me it's just as easy to click "no" for everything which solves 90% of problems, but it'd be nice if they just weren't seeing the message in the first place.

Jumble, this cracked me up. My mother had the capacity to absolutely destroy a computer OS, usually within a few weeks. Rather than saying "yes" too much, she just kept pushing buttons instead of waiting for things to load. I'd open it up and immediately get a blue screen crash. I'd take it in to the guy who's been selling me computers for 15 years, and he'd never seen anything so screwed-up. You couldn't do it if you tried.

I'm gonna be in deep, meaningful sheep dip, and I didn't do anything wrong

- AKA "being born human", I'm afraid. You DO know that when Thomas Jefferson stuck in the line and an "inalieble right to... the pursuit of happiness" he was just trying to trick some dumb mud farmers into getting shot by the Brits, so Tommy could plantation away in peace?
 
those family member would think twice about clicking yes if they needed an administrator password to do so..... just saying.. posix systems are infact more secure....
 
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