Nut tweaks & weird intonation on Strat Tiltback Gibson Scale Conversion neck

[Bruce Campbell]

The other neck was already strung up by my last post. Just to be clear, you're suggesting I remove the pick guard, attach the conversion neck, and see if it fits/intonates better? Original neck intonates fine, and neither were being pushed by the guard, but when these strings die I could try it.

 

[Spud]

Unfortunately, my tech didn't seem to understand/like/respect what I wanted, and I'm not happy with how that request was received, so it might be time to acquire calipers (suggestions welcome). After consulting other threads including this it seems like bridge intonation & adjustment range can definitely get weird with the Gibson conversion necks.

Has anyone had this issue (conversion neck on Fender body) and then found the neck intonated properly on a Warmoth (or other) body?

I have put a Warmoth conversion neck on a Fender body, Squier body, a Carvin body, and an Epiphone body and was able to get a good set up/intonation.

 

[stratamania]

I’m on my phone, so looking at a small pic, but the guard seems to be extending over the neck pocket.

That is exactly what I saw also.

@Bruce Campbell if that pickguard is extending over the neck pocket which it seems to be, then it will mean that the conversion neck will not seat in the correct place. It might fit into the pocket but not against the back wall meaning the scale length will end up slightly longer than spec and will be giving especially with the conversion neck an inability for it to be intonated properly.

I know you see people on YouTube etc just screwing pick guards onto the body without checking any neck fit, but that is a slapdash approach which can lead to problems.

The pickguard needs to be flush with the neck pocket. You will need to slacken off the screws and refit it, if needed filling and redrilling the holes.

Here is a picture of a correctly fitted pickguard that is flush with the neck pocket from one of my builds.


BF (6) by stratamania, on Flickr


The below post in one of my build threads shows dry fitting the neck prior to attaching the pickguard etc, and there are more pictures and discussion in that thread.

The Mystical Mahogany Build...

I then need to enlist the help of the neck and the tremolo unit so I can ensure the pickguard is correctly lined up and in position. I use masking tape to keep it where it needs to be. I then drill the pilot holes of 1.5mm with the pickguard in place. I remove the pickguard and then use a 2mm...

unofficialwarmoth.com

 

[Bruce Campbell]

Ok, that makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I did think that I was seating the neck all the way down against the cavity wall, but I didn't check specifically for that, just to see if it would fit and screw in.

My ultimate goal with this was to get a cheaper body and put my original neck and electronics in that, and set it up for slide or something, and then use the original body with the conversion neck as my main Strat. But at this point it would be a lot easier to just get another alder body and set that up with the conversion neck, good electronics etc. and take this Fender back to stock. As long as it specs out right (closer to real spec than my Fender, hopefully) and the pick guard holes aren't too close to the neck pocket like on here, it seems like it should work?

 

[stratamania]

You could do all of that but it is a simple fix to move the pickguard to verify and correct the problem. If you then want to swap other bodies and necks around, then you know it is not the conversion neck that caused the problem.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

Yes, that's what I'll do before ordering anything else. Might need to take a few days away from tweaking and just play it. This has been frustrating but I've learned several important things.

 

[stratamania]

Yes, that's what I'll do before ordering anything else. Might need to take a few days away from tweaking and just play it. This has been frustrating but I've learned several important things.

Okay, update the thread to let us know if it has solved the issue.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

After taking the neck off and removing the pick guard, it appears that there is a ridge at the back of the pocket preventing the neck from going as far back as it could on either side. I didn't attempt to measure it but the distance is apparent with the neck installed. When I put the original on again I'll check to see if it somehow fits in better with that ridge.

As you can also see from the other photo, there were a few pick guard holes filled and redrilled already. I think that was about 14-15 years ago.

With the pick guard off, the conversion neck does seem to get much better intonation at 12th fret - the low E does intonate close enough where I'd be happy, at the full extent of its range with spring removed. If another body didn't have that ridge, I wonder if the intonation could have even more room for adjustment? The G also gets into good territory without needed to remove spring.

If getting another body for the transplant I mentioned before, I'd be using a Hipshot Hardtail bridge. I did reinstall the original American Standard saddles as the String Saver Saddles were getting burrs and grooves a little more than I thought. Sounds better and seems to have a better intonation range too.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

After playing some more, it does seem like the 12th fret intonation check lines up well, but in the first 7 frets, especially the first 5, it's too sharp. When making the G string 12 fret fretted in tune with harmonic, the 4th fret B does not match at all with an open B string. The other open strings with same pitch fretted notes aren't very in tune either. I know this is to a degree taste but I definitely need fretted notes to match the same pitch open string. I don't know to what degree the guitar body is throwing things off since the 12th fret intonations don't result in it being in tune across the neck.

 

[stratamania]

If lower frets are sharp when the rest are intonated, it is usually a sign of a nut cut too high and/or too heavy a touch. If you have burrs and grooves on your bridge saddles, that is probably not helping either.

Also, final intonation should be done in playing position. By now if you are using the same set of strings they are probably shot as well as far as being able to be tuned well.

I cannot quite make out the ridge height as the photo is only in plan view. If there is a ridge in the neck pocket, which should not be there, I would simply remove it. A sharp chisel would do the job.

At this point, I think we have ruled out the neck itself as being at fault.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

If lower frets are sharp when the rest are intonated, it is usually a sign of a nut cut too high and/or too heavy a touch. If you have burrs and grooves on your bridge saddles, that is probably not helping either.

Also, final intonation should be done in playing position.

I cannot quite make out the ridge height as the photo is only in plan view. If there is a ridge in the neck pocket, which should not be there, I would simply remove it. A sharp chisel would do the job.

At this point, I think we have ruled out the neck itself as being at fault.

I'll have to try lowering the nut slots to see if I can get it low enough to tune well. The burrs and grooves were in the other saddles, not these.

I have always set intonation in playing position. These strings are new since putting the neck on, haven't reused them. I have been using as light a touch as will still sound the note without buzzing.

Not going to modify the original neck pocket since the original neck works fine in it. I am more interested to see if this neck would work on a body that doesn't have those oddities and measurements different from spec.

However, since I haven't yet checked the scale with calipers, I can't know for sure that the neck is OK.

 

[stratamania]

@Bruce Campbell note I edited the post you quoted with some other information regarding strings.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

@Bruce Campbell note I edited the post you quoted with some other information regarding strings.

Me too.

 

[stratamania]

Also, realize I am also mentioning items that are general advice for anyone that might read this thread of things to take into account. If those things are taken into account already that is good, but I would rather point them out just to be comprehensive.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

Yes, I agree, those are good things to keep in mind. If the caliper check reveals the scale is good, the nut is probably the only way to get closer, unless there's something else I'm missing.

 

[stratamania]

All other things being equal, the nut may be worth looking at. I mentioned earlier in the thread Earvana, it might be worth looking into also.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

Yeah, I realized I had to learn more about compensated nuts so I've been researching in the meantime. The Earvana site is kinda sketchy in terms of clear information and such, although it definitely seems like it could work. Since this nut might not even be ideal, I'm going to try and get the slots as low as possible without buzz and check intonation.

There is also a bit of information about DIY compensation and I am more inclined to try that for several reasons - the Earvana looks like it requires some modification or drilling to fit a flat nut slot?

 

[stratamania]

There is also a bit of information about DIY compensation and I am more inclined to try that for several reasons

As forum member "Cagey" who used to be very active on the forum might have said, that would probably be a pain in the shorts.

the Earvana looks like it requires some modification or drilling to fit a flat nut slot?

It should not need to be if you pick the correct one for the neck, there is a shelf that overlaps the fretboard partially to give room for the compensated slots, so the nut slot does not need to be widened.

If ordering an Earvana on a new neck from Warmoth the nut slot is made wider (closer to the first fret) and the nut is cut for the neck. I have/had a couple of these over the years and find them useful.

• Earvana nuts require a wider nut slot than traditional nuts. Converting the slot for a traditional nut is not easy, so be certain you like the Earvana nut before requesting it.
• This option is not available on Modern Tiltback construction necks.

Ref: https://warmoth.com/guitar-neck-string-nuts

 

[Bruce Campbell]

Ok, this seems very viable; I had thought the 3 screws had to go into the neck directly like a locking unit, but I just saw on a video the retrofits attach via screws the top part/shelf to the base. This will be the next thing to try if lower slots don't suffice. Also acquiring some calipers in the next few days.

 

[stratamania]

Ok, this seems very viable; I had thought the 3 screws had to go into the neck directly like a locking unit, but I just saw on a video the retrofits attach via screws the top part/shelf to the base. This will be the next thing to try if lower slots don't suffice. Also acquiring some calipers in the next few days.

It is only the retrofit nuts that have those screws, there are also shelf style. See my earlier post, it may be that the Gibson style shelf nut I linked to may be more appropriate for a tilt back neck.