Neck pocket depth. Anybody who had problems with that?

[khal]

Hello everybody.

After having some experience from modding my old Telecaster so many times (including a Mahogany Warmoth neck) I decided to do a hole new Guitar.

So I planned a Thinline Telecaster, ordered the parts (all from Warmoth), and well, it is done now: a beautiful guitar that plays and looks great.

But it was a stony road until here. Because things didn't fit right from the start as they should.

With the neck and bridge installed (the Gotoh bridge sold by Warmoth itself), it wasn't possible to get an acceptable action even with the screws of the bridge saddles all turned turned up to maximum.

I suspectet that the neck pocket was too high (or in other words: not deep enough).
So I cosulted a local luthier how confirmed the problem and routed the neck pocket slightly deeper and Voilà! Things started to fit.
Beside this he had to level the frets, especially the high ones, because they all were too high. They looked like a raising jumping ramp, which made it impossible to set a good action without buzz. So after doing all this I now have a great action and the guitar is fine.

Why do I write this?
Well, I want to know if you guys had any similar problems with the neck pocket?

The problem with uneven frets seems to be more frequent (all the three necks I have from Warmoth have more or less fret problems: mostly single uneven frets)
I mean: when I buy a neck that costs almost as much as a complete new MIM Strat from the store I would expect it to be PERFECT! And I shouldn't have to perform ANY fretwork! (Yes I read what Warmoth writes about this issue on their Homepage, but I think these are excuses!)

Same for the body: I had to pay the luthier to get the things right, and this shouldn't be. The prices we pay should let us expect an impeccable piece with no need for further routing or other work.

Other problem: routing the neck pocket eliminates the Warmoth branding. If I wanted to sell the body one day, why should anybody believe me that it is a Warmoth body? I once saw a Strat body for sale on ebay, and the seller had exactly this problem! He tried to explain to the possible buyers that this was a Warmoth body. But as it had the neck pocket routed deeper there was no proof of that.

I'm excited to read some replies to this topic to know your opinions.

Greetings from Lisbon/Portugal :glasses9:

 

[erogenousjones17]

I can't help but think that maybe you should have contacted Warmoth before having the neck pocket rerouted. That's just my two cents.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

How was the body spec'ed?

 

[Watershed]

I guess everything is relative.

I always level the frets with every build.  I don't expect a setup out of the box.
Actually, I'm not entirely leveling, I add/keep a bit of "fall away" to the last few frets.

The neck pocket situation does sound like more than usual persuasion.
Although, I have a fair number of builds under my belt and have never had that problem.

I don't look at Warmoth parts as a "kit".
What gets me are knots.

James

 

[Dan025]

sorry you got a bum combo but that about never happens. the ocasional rissing fret is common as warmoth produces necks they do not preform action and setup operations to them. in that case you only need to reseat it.

remember guitars are made of wood and you can not guaranty that it will arrive as it left the factory or how it will look in 10 years. wood is effected by atmospheric conditions.

the fact that even a few necks get out from warmoth with no issues is as testament to there build quality, any luthier would tell you that all necks should have the frets leveled. the fact that you had a problem as unfortunate as it is shouldn't steer you away from warmoth as there are just as many guys here that have built 10+ complete warmoths and never had to do a fret dress on any of them. i am certain warmoth would've replace you parts free after they helped you determine the root cause of the problem, whether it be the neck and body or just the neck.

if it ever happens again get out a machinist ruler and measure the pocket all the way around to make sure it is level and at the right depth. the you would know you have a bum neck and to send it back.

 

[khal]

I can't help but think that maybe you should have contacted Warmoth before having the neck pocket rerouted. That's just my two cents.

Warmoth offer their products worldwide.
For us guys outside of the good ol' US of A it's not very realistic to send items back.
I pay custom fees when I receive the items.
When I send it back the US customs will require custom fees again. And then, when they send it back it's the third time that we pay custom fees in Europe. Not to talk of the transport costs.
So the point is quality control!
When a company like Warmoth produces parts in a high price level they should have a quality control that is on the level of the prices they demand. Like in the car industry. I expect it to work. Nothing more, nothing less.
I might have had bad luck, but I shouldn't have.
I have to say again: I have a beautiful guitar now, and it is made from Warmoth parts, which I always say with pride. But I shouldn't have gone through all this to have it.
The neck pocket thing doesn't seem to be so rare (see my first post where I mention the ebay seller).
Especially for parts that leave the territory of the USA, Warmoth should do a better job in final control, because returning doesn't make no sense.

 

[Watershed]

I can't help but think that maybe you should have contacted Warmoth before having the neck pocket rerouted. That's just my two cents.

Warmoth offer their products worldwide.
For us guys outside of the good ol' US of A it's not very realistic to send items back.
I pay custom fees when I receive the items.
When I send it back the US customs will require custom fees again. And then, when they send it back it's the third time that we pay custom fees in Europe. Not to talk of the transport costs.
So the point is quality control!

That IS a good point.
Sorry to hear, but it sounds like things worked out in the end.

I look at a build as "assembly with the potential for extreme persuasion".

 

[Mor Paul]

I've never heard of this kind of problem before. Warmoth uses CNC, so everything should be the same. I agree that calling would be the best option.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

If I had to guess, something wasn't spec'ed correctly between the body and bridge to be used when ordered.

 

[ByteFrenzy]

If I had to guess, something wasn't spec'ed correctly between the body and bridge to be used when ordered.

+1.

The neck pocket is 5/8" deep - which is standard Fender specs, period. What can throw this off? The first thing I'd think of is the angled neck pocket in combination with the wrong model of bridge. The other thing would be the '720' mod, which would do just the opposite, give you a deeper neck pocket but also a bit of an angle to compensate.

Returning my pruchase to Warmoth wouldn't particularly thrill me either, but contacting them would probably have helped a lot in diagnosing the issue.

By the way, khal, you do realize that Warmoth can install several sizes of fretwire? If you say the frets 'all were too high', looking 'like a raising jumping ramp' maybe you should consider smaller wire.

 

[khal]

If I had to guess, something wasn't spec'ed correctly between the body and bridge to be used when ordered.

Everything I ordered was the mainstream standard. No angled or whatsoever neck pocket.
The neck and the body came from the showcase. The neck was even suggested by Warmoth themselves. You know sometimes when you watch an item, for example a body, they suggest a link saying: "you also might like...", and then lead you to another item. It was the suggested neck for that body that I liked and bought.

 

[Dan025]

ooh they started doing the deeper pockets, i used to do this my self but that is awsome

 

[Death by Uberschall]

If I had to guess, something wasn't spec'ed correctly between the body and bridge to be used when ordered.

Everything I ordered was the mainstream standard. No angled or whatsoever neck pocket.
The neck and the body came from the showcase. The neck was even suggested by Warmoth themselves. You know sometimes when you watch an item, for example a body, they suggest a link saying: "you also might like...", and then lead you to another item. It was the suggested neck for that body that I liked and bought.

Was the body originally cut for the bridge you used?

 

[TomPerverteau]

You should always expect to have a basic fret dress done when you buy a new guitar or neck from anybody.

 

[khal]

By the way, khal, you do realize that Warmoth can install several sizes of fretwire? If you say the frets 'all were too high', looking 'like a raising jumping ramp' maybe you should consider smaller wire.

I guess I was misunderstood, or I didn't explain it right.
I said the HIGHER frets, starting from the 14th ot 15th fret were all too high, like a raising ski jumping ramp (a little bit exagerated but it might be a good comparison to describe it for someone who didn't see it).
So what the luthier did was do flatten the frets on the higher register = on the treble side (this is what I ment with higher), so I could get a playable action which is very good now.
I am an old fart  :tard:  (I play guitar for 32 years), so I DO KNOW what kind of frets I need (6105 in this case) and they were (and are) perfect on the lower register (= the first 12-14 frets). :icon_thumright:

 

[khal]

Was the body originally cut for the bridge you used?

Of course it was.
It was is a standard Thinline body cut for standard Tele bridge, with all the holes done.
The Gotoh bridge that I bought together with the body and neck from Warmoth itself is considered to be a 100% replacement for a standard Tele bridge. To be certain I even called the customer service and spoke with one of the Warmoth salesmen (I think it was Spike) who confirmed me that the brigde it compatible.

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Just asking to be sure.

 

[tubby.twins]

I've had a similar issue with parts from the Showcase.  I ordered two Gecko bodies on different occasions which had their neck pockets routed too DEEP (3/4" instead of 5/8"), which meant that the neck sat lower than it should have.

After an e-mail to Warmoth with some photos and a description of the issue, they offered to repair both bodies at no cost to me.  I shipped the bodies back and they reimbursed me for my return shipping charges, and paid for the repaired bodies to be shipped to me.  In both cases they installed a thin Wenge shim in the neck pocket, brought it back up to spec, and re-stamped the shim with the Warmoth logo.

The second time this happened was a bit more annoying, since it was several months after I found the problem originally, and after most of the remaining affected Gecko bodies in the Showcase had been repaired and re-listed with a description of what was fixed.  Apparently the second body must have slipped through the cracks and it wasn't repaired along with the others.  But everything was fixed to my satisfaction.

Regarding CNC, the machine can only be as precise as those who program it.  In this case it was a human error in the programming that caused the neck pocket to be routed too deep.  However, Warmoth responded promptly in both cases, and the customer service was top-notch.  I'm glad I contacted Warmoth about the issue rather than trying to fix it myself.  

 

[khal]

I've had a similar issue with parts from the Showcase.  I ordered two Gecko bodies on different occasions which had their neck pockets routed too DEEP (3/4" instead of 5/8"), which meant that the neck sat lower than it should have.

After an e-mail to Warmoth with some photos and a description of the issue, they offered to repair both bodies at no cost to me.  I shipped the bodies back and they reimbursed me for my return shipping charges, and paid for the repaired bodies to be shipped to me.  In both cases they installed a thin Wenge shim in the neck pocket, brought it back up to spec, and re-stamped the shim with the Warmoth logo.

The second time this happened was a bit more annoying, since it was several months after I found the problem originally, and after most of the remaining affected Gecko bodies in the Showcase had been repaired and re-listed with a description of what was fixed.  Apparently the second body must have slipped through the cracks and it wasn't repaired along with the others.  But everything was fixed to my satisfaction.

Regarding CNC, the machine can only be as precise as those who program it.  In this case it was a human error in the programming that caused the neck pocket to be routed too deep.  However, Warmoth responded promptly in both cases, and the customer service was top-notch.  I'm glad I contacted Warmoth about the issue rather than trying to fix it myself.  

Very interesting!

Seems I'm not alone in being alone (The Police, Message in a Bottle...). :dontknow:

I believe that these things can happen. And I also believe that the folks at Warmoth are nice guys and are willing to assume the error.
But once again: Warmoth sells worldwide. And they do it because this way they can sell higher numbers.
But Warmoth has to understand that sending bodies and necks back and forth in and outside the USA is complicated because of customs and shipping costs. Receiving it, sending it back and receiving it again and you have doubled the price of the item. It doesn' make no sense.
So what Warmoth should do is to have a more rigorous end-control unit.
Every body and neck should pass a final controller that inspects all relevant aspects (like Fender does...).
Of course I am aware that this means paying people for doing this, in other words: more expenses, less bargain.
But on long term it might turn out to be positive for the company, as it avoids customers turning their back on them and going elesewhere (USA Custom Guitars seem to do a great job, as do the guys at Musikraft....)

Especially with foreign customers who can't return the items like the average US customer.

Think about it folks.
This is a growing market....

 

[Dan025]

I've had a similar issue with parts from the Showcase.  I ordered two Gecko bodies on different occasions which had their neck pockets routed too DEEP (3/4" instead of 5/8"), which meant that the neck sat lower than it should have.

After an e-mail to Warmoth with some photos and a description of the issue, they offered to repair both bodies at no cost to me.  I shipped the bodies back and they reimbursed me for my return shipping charges, and paid for the repaired bodies to be shipped to me.  In both cases they installed a thin Wenge shim in the neck pocket, brought it back up to spec, and re-stamped the shim with the Warmoth logo.

The second time this happened was a bit more annoying, since it was several months after I found the problem originally, and after most of the remaining affected Gecko bodies in the Showcase had been repaired and re-listed with a description of what was fixed.  Apparently the second body must have slipped through the cracks and it wasn't repaired along with the others.  But everything was fixed to my satisfaction.

Regarding CNC, the machine can only be as precise as those who program it.  In this case it was a human error in the programming that caused the neck pocket to be routed too deep.  However, Warmoth responded promptly in both cases, and the customer service was top-notch.  I'm glad I contacted Warmoth about the issue rather than trying to fix it myself.  

not the program/programer, the operator. if the program was wrong they would all be cut wrong. the operator must set the tool length offset which accounts for the height of the feature as well as fixture offsets which accounts for the position of the features.

again sorry about your bad experience. some companies will have the operator and another dedicated inspector measure every finished part and the numbers must match. but with high production numbers it is more typical to inspect one of a batch or every 10 or 20 or 100 depending on how many of something is made. in many factories the operators are trained on the job and make mistakes as they learn, it is unfortunate that QC didn't doesn't catch every flaw. also the more options a company offers and the more custom orders a company gets the more these things will happen as the machine setups are constantly changing.

but it may have warped after the parts left the plant. as far as how you describe the neck rising like a skijump or whatever that sounds odd. i don't know how you even do that to a finger board. i don't know what warmoths fret board fixtures look like but it would take a real screwup to mess up that badly and then for it to be fretted and the fret guy to not notice seems like gross incompetance and i'm not sure that much would get past QC and the techs who build it. it sounds almost like you have a rising tung. is there any visible line where the fretboard meets the neck?