Neck heavy?

[rdb93]

Hi there,

This is my first time posting, so hopefully I’m in the right section. If not, please feel free to move.

I am in the process of planning my first Warmoth build, but am somewhat concerned it could be neck heavy. I am hoping to opt for the following options:

Body:
  Strat style
  Roasted alder
  Chambered
  F-hole
  Universal route
  Maple cap
  Vintage style Callaham tremolo with steel block

Neck:
  22 fret
  Roasted maple
  Fatback profile
  CBS headstock
  Non-locking/reasonably light tuners.

I just wanted to check, based on past experience from previous builds do people think this will balance OK or potentially risk being neck heavy? I did contact Warmoth and they said they couldn’t make any guarantees, but estimated that the body (without hardware) would be in the region of 3-4 lbs and that the neck would likely sit somewhere between 1 lb 8 oz and 1 lb 12 oz.

I’m aware this will be a light guitar overall, but I just wanted to check whether it is likely to be neck heavy once hardware has been added? The last thing I want is a beautiful new guitar with drastic neck dive!

Any help or advice from experienced Warmoth enthusiasts would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

 

[Kostas]

Buy a body from the showcase with a specific weight or ask for the desirable weight if you custom order. The lightest body I have is 3lbs, 14oz and the guitar is not neck heavy. I suggest not to go for an anemic body and you will probably be OK. My W necks are from Wenge, Maple and Goncalo Alves. All guitars are balanced.

 

[spe111]

You just need a good strap if it's neck heavy.

 

[Cagey]

While not impossible, it's difficult to make a neck-heavy Strat due to the body design/strap hanger locations. Even relatively light bodies can take what would seem like a heavier neck without much problem. But, roasted Maple necks are generally very light, often coming in around 1 lb. even after tuners are installed. So, I wouldn't be concerned.

 

[rgand]

A while ago I put a roasted maple neck on a fairly light Strat body I had and it did fine.

Welcome to the forum. I look forward to seeing what you put together.

 

[aarontunes]

While not impossible, it's difficult to make a neck-heavy Strat due to the body design/strap hanger locations. Even relatively light bodies can take what would seem like a heavier neck without much problem. But, roasted Maple necks are generally very light, often coming in around 1 lb. even after tuners are installed. So, I wouldn't be concerned.

Yep, this.

Neck-heaviness is more about proper balance points, and less about weight-ratios.

 

[ghotiphry]

I see what you did there.

 

[rdb93]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

As Cagey suggested, it seems unlikely that a Strat could end up neck heavy due to the overall architecture of the guitar and position of the strap button on the horn, but I just wanted to check.

A couple of other questions:

1) I know it’s almost entirely a personal thing, but I am looking into the fatback neck profile. I am somewhat torn as to whether to go for the traditional 1 11/16” or to go for the 1 3/4” nut width? Does anyone have any experience of either specifically with the fatback carve? My concern would obviously be that the 1 3/4” could be too wide or have too much girth. Any thoughts would be welcome.

2) Are the Earvana nuts worth it? Have people who have tried them noticed a difference (for better or worse) in intonation not only near the nut but across the neck? It also looks like the nut slot is cut somewhat differently for these than a regular Strat nut. Is it possible to buy replacement aftermarket Earvana TUSQ nuts for the nut slot that Warmoth cuts if the original wears out?

Thank you for all the help and advice

 

[T89Rex]

The intonation on my Warmoth guitar with an Earvana is definitely better than the intonation on my other guitars, but it's also a better guitar overall so who knows what the critical factor is.

I don't regret it but I'm not sure whether I'd bother with it a second time.

 

[Cagey]

Whether you will notice an Earvana depends pretty heavily on how well the "normal" nut is cut. A properly cut nut is a wonderful thing, but it's not often you get one. It's a pretty time-consuming process to get it right. Also, the mount for them on a Warmoth neck is definitely non-standard. If you have them install an Earvana, you won't be able to get a replacement easily. I've made them here myself, but it's no fun and I wouldn't recommend it.

I had one on a neck years ago and could tell I had it. Helps with cowboy chords, especially if you're the type who manhandles a neck while playing, but I don't buy or recommend them any more. I started using taller frets and was forced to stop trying to strangle the poor thing to death, so playing out of tune ceased to be a problem.

 

[Rick]

Go for the wider neck, I love them, for me the difference like speeding down the highway vs city traffic.

 

[Kostas]

Make sure you have played really fat necks because the FAT profile is huge and the wider nut will make the neck feel even bigger.

 

[rdb93]

Thanks for all the replies.

So am I right in thinking that the Earvana nut probably confers minimal intonation benefit over a standard nut cut that is properly by a good luthier, but that it may be significantly more tricky to replace at a later date due to odd spacing?

Also, I just went back to my classical guitar and the wider string spacing does have so much more room and space to manoeuvre, so I think I will opt for the 1 3/4” nut width. Do people think this will still be manageable with the fatback neck profile, or would a slimmer carve be recommended? I presume the 1 3/4” nut width is still compatible with the pole piece spacing of standard pickups? I read somewhere that people had problems with 1 7/8”. Just want to check before ordering.

Thanks for being such a helpful bunch!

p.s. Kostas, do you know of any production models I could try and find in local shops to compare with a similar neck thickness profiles? I’m a lefty, so it’s always a nightmare, but even something similar in right-handed would be helpful.

 

[Cagey]

So am I right in thinking that the Earvana nut probably confers minimal intonation benefit over a standard nut cut that is properly by a good luthier, but that it may be significantly more tricky to replace at a later date due to odd spacing?

That's been my experience. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Kostas]

...p.s. Kostas, do you know of any production models I could try and find in local shops to compare with a similar neck thickness profiles? I’m a lefty, so it’s always a nightmare, but even something similar in right-handed would be helpful.

Any PRS with widefat or pattern vintage neck profile. Gibson RI LP's, '54 - '58 will come close but they are still smaller. Remember, the FAT profile starts from 1.00" at the first fret but also depends on the final sanding. I had three FAT necks, now two. I sold the first one because of the thickness and U shape. I have kept a slightly thinner that I plan to shave a little at some point and the last one feels smaller...like a thicker '59.

Also, the FAT is a U shape that makes a difference, the PRS & Gibson guitars I mentioned are all C shape. I had two classical guitars with thick but quite flat necks on the back, they gave me no trouble with playing, neither the wider nut. The U shape is the most difficult for my hand.

 

[Rick]

I have a guitar with a 1 7/8 neck with a thin profile and have no problems.  My current build will have a super wide with a Wolfgang profile.  You gotta try a bunch of necks to find which one suits you.

 

[swarfrat]

I like my Earvana,but I've always done the shelf version, not the LSR slot (which apparently stands for "Large Scale Recess"). That said - it's pricey, and it's only an approximation which may or may not be better than a stab in the right direction for your given setup (string gauge, nut height, scale length). Check out Stephen Delft's article (the article is still attributed under that name) on the Compensated Nut sometime for some extreme examples. 

Basically a compensated nut is trying to compensate for the tension induced by pushing the string down to the fret. It matters more the bigger your strings, the shorter your scale length,  the taller your nut, the lower your frets, and the more  you play in root position (as well as the pickier your amp settings, etc..).  Those are some of the reasons why some people say 'it'll never be noticed'. It might not, for them. It doesn't mean that you have superior ears and they're oblivious, nor does it mean that they're pragmatists and you're a pretentious cork sniffer. It matters hugely on how you play it. If you've got low actions 9's, you rarely play below the fifth fret with a bunch of delay based effects, and have a dense pad of keyboards behind you, no you'll probably never notice. Neither would I.

 

[rdb93]

Thanks for all the responses - all very informative and useful, and special thanks to Kostas for the production model suggestions to try.

I’m not sure if I should post this here or in the pickups section, so please feel free to move if necessary. But for this build I’m looking to go with either a HSS or HS configuration. I’m not a metal head and so don’t require anything super high output or tight sounding. I play a range of styles from blues, blues rock, rock, funk, fusion, jazz etc. I also typically tend to leave my amp set reasonably dirty and ride the volume to achieve a clean tone. It may also sound weird, but I almost always set tone pots to around 2-3, as I find there is a sweat spot where it removes some of the front end note attack/transient without muddying the sound, leading to a lovely vocal quality.

For the neck pickup, I want something noiseless with single coil esque voicing. I say ‘esque’ because it doesn’t necessarily need to do be a perfect vintage Strat replica per se, but I do like the articulation and clarity that a single coil neck provides. In fact, I quite like something on the fatter (although not muddy) side. Something that has all the lovely single coil detail when the volume knob is rolled back for clean, but that thickens up a bit and sings with a liquid-like quality (possibly a slightly scooped sound?) once the volume is maxed. It’s obviously a difficult thing to describe, but kind of like Yngwies’ neck sound on the Rising Force album, or Blackmore on the Come Hell or Highwater tour. I’m not sure if any of these are in the right ballpark, so please feel free to make alternative suggestions, but I was thinking perhaps either SD Cool Rails, YJM Fury or Dimarzio Cruiser bridge (aka Andy Timmons)?

For the bridge, I love the way humbuckers compress but don’t necessarily want anything particularly high output. I like the warm singing violin type tones of Eric Johnson, Andy Timmons, Eric Gales, Cream, Jeff Beck (Cause We’ve Ended...) etc. from the bridge pickup. I don’t want a humbucker that removes all nuance and touch sensitivity from playing, but I do like the way humbuckers compress and ‘purr’ (think articulate but warm, as opposed to in your face bite) in the bridge position. It would be nice to retain some openness and ‘space’ in the sound, and also to have a nice ‘bloom’ to the note. Consequently, I’m guessing some sort of PAF, hot PAF or Alnico II is going to get me close. There are obviously hundreds of PAF replicas so I’m very welcome to suggestions based on previous experience. However, I was perhaps thinking the SD Seth Lover, as its not potted and so might be an interesting combination with the acoustic resonance of a chambered guitar body?

I don’t have any allegiance to any particular aftermarket pickup brand, so any suggestions are welcome, but obviously the combination would need to work well as a set. I’ll worry about the middle pickup once I know what’s going in the bridge and neck, as the middle would only be to give those classic Strat in between tones. I hope the above makes some sense, as it’s always hard to convey the sounds you hear in your head with these abstract adjectives! Ive also never had a chambered or roasted body/neck before, so I’m not sure what effect that may have (if any) on selecting the appropriate pickups.

I look forward to hearing what people suggest and thank you in advance

 

[Rick]

Look at Bill Lawrence Wilde PUPs, DiMarzio's, Rio Grandes, SD's and Rail Hammers.  There are so many to choose from, it's hard to give advice on this.

 

[Kostas]

The Yngwie tone is particular, if you want his tone you should start from the HS3. I'm not sure it has a good clean tone though. Personally I like this pickup in the bridge position for rhythm playing but most people use it for lead. The Cruiser is a versatile pickup, excels on clean & dirty sounds. If you are going to use it I suggest to put it on both positions to work well with each other.

Even though you are thinking Alnico II I suggest the Suhr Thornbucker Plus (Alnico IV) for the bridge. It has clarity, warmth and splits well although with the Cruisers in the other positions I don't know how well it will sound splitted on bridge-middle position.

If you didn't want noiseless I would suggest an all Suhr set, they make great pickups (IMO) and unlike their guitars they are reasonably priced. Every guitar I have played with Suhr pickups sounded great.