My Beliefs on Guitar Tone
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AprioriMark
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Tone is three things:
1) Your comfort with the instrument, how it allows you to communicate, and the language you choose with your hands.
2) Wood. Neck woods, body woods, and how they're crafted together. Each *piece* of wood matters much more than the type, sort of. I've played with "lively" pieces of softer wood, and "dead" pieces of harder wood. The way the wood grew, including how the cells lined up during growth, matter quite a bit. I firmly believe that as the wood cures (and is broken down over the years), the cells in the wood will vibrate and break down to resonate more perfectly. The way we play the instrument over the years affects the tone; I have no doubt. If you've ever played an old guitar that was played lovingly by intent musicians, and then played the same model that was kept in a closet for 50 years, there is an unquantifiable "quality" that exists.
3) Electronics, strings, and hardware. All of these shape how we seek to amplify the acoustic qualities of the wood. If that means high gain rock where teh body could be plexiglass, then it does. How *much* the hardware affects the acoustic sound of the wood is a choice. What characteristics the electronics amplify is a choice.
All in all, an electric instrument is one of last true "mythical" connections in modern life. It contains elements of nature and elements of human invention. How those aspects are respected, and to what degrees they are emphasized and made to compliment each other are only important as they relate to our one-foot-in, one-foot-out of the world process of musical expression and creation.
-Mark
1) Your comfort with the instrument, how it allows you to communicate, and the language you choose with your hands.
2) Wood. Neck woods, body woods, and how they're crafted together. Each *piece* of wood matters much more than the type, sort of. I've played with "lively" pieces of softer wood, and "dead" pieces of harder wood. The way the wood grew, including how the cells lined up during growth, matter quite a bit. I firmly believe that as the wood cures (and is broken down over the years), the cells in the wood will vibrate and break down to resonate more perfectly. The way we play the instrument over the years affects the tone; I have no doubt. If you've ever played an old guitar that was played lovingly by intent musicians, and then played the same model that was kept in a closet for 50 years, there is an unquantifiable "quality" that exists.
3) Electronics, strings, and hardware. All of these shape how we seek to amplify the acoustic qualities of the wood. If that means high gain rock where teh body could be plexiglass, then it does. How *much* the hardware affects the acoustic sound of the wood is a choice. What characteristics the electronics amplify is a choice.
All in all, an electric instrument is one of last true "mythical" connections in modern life. It contains elements of nature and elements of human invention. How those aspects are respected, and to what degrees they are emphasized and made to compliment each other are only important as they relate to our one-foot-in, one-foot-out of the world process of musical expression and creation.
-Mark
AprioriMark
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stubhead said:
Specifically, holly bodies (Gibson Super 400 and a 40s Epi Archtop... I think a Zenith) played by Dixeland/swing musicians. When I was a youngin', I had the experience of hanging out with an amazing player at a festival who was a friend of my grandfather's, and he was looking to replace those two guitars. We hit up auctions and estate sales, and he'd already bought a couple Super 400s. He had all the guitars he bought set up by the guy who'd been setting up his current axes, and without fail, the ones that had been played ended up sounding and "feeling" better than the closet guitars.
While this is certainly not a cross section of all guitars or any sort of empirical evidence, it's in keeping with the old orchestral idea that great instruments take on some of the life of their owners, and that the wood carries on the "soul" of the people who've played them.
-Mark
btw, I know that it is not popular here to say that body woods make a difference, but I can say that I have played 3 different strats, with the same pickups, wiring, hardware and amp...
HOWEVER ... they all sounded completely different:
korina body + bloodwood neck -> Very fat, warm and the longest sustain ever!
Ash body + wenge neck -> great mids, tight, punchy aggressive tone
Hollow Korina body + Canary neck -> very warm and resonant.. luke will be able to describe this better
* edit: Luke's strat sounds like a crab committing suicide, stewed in its own reverb for about three hours, and then pumped out through a shoe to give it that oaky timbre
(I really suck in describing tone.. I wish I could be more like Orpheo hehe)
HOWEVER ... they all sounded completely different:
korina body + bloodwood neck -> Very fat, warm and the longest sustain ever!
Ash body + wenge neck -> great mids, tight, punchy aggressive tone
Hollow Korina body + Canary neck -> very warm and resonant.. luke will be able to describe this better
* edit: Luke's strat sounds like a crab committing suicide, stewed in its own reverb for about three hours, and then pumped out through a shoe to give it that oaky timbre
(I really suck in describing tone.. I wish I could be more like Orpheo hehe)
and I shall.
The old soylent black does have a nice resonant tone.. when played through my vox.
That being said when I play it through my fender champ 300, it sounds very flat.. and dead.
But really I'd say the tone is like a suicidal crab through an old shoe for that oakie timbre, left to stew in it's own reverb for about 3 hours.
The old soylent black does have a nice resonant tone.. when played through my vox.
That being said when I play it through my fender champ 300, it sounds very flat.. and dead.
But really I'd say the tone is like a suicidal crab through an old shoe for that oakie timbre, left to stew in it's own reverb for about 3 hours.
And that being said, Marko's wenge necked strat is LITERALLY the same strat as my canary necked one. Same hardware to the T. They don't sound quite alike.. his has more fat mids, mine really have a hollow feel to them. His highs are tight, my highs are airey but very nice.
It's very strange to play them side by side, when they only differences is the wood types.
EDIT:
Same size specs, same trem, same fret wire, same pickups, same wiring, same nut, quite literally the same set up, just different body and neck woods, and mine is chambered.. and I don't think the chambered makes up THAT much of a difference, they really are quite different on tone.
Also since mine is lighter, it feels a bit more delicate.. which works with the sound it puts out rather well heh. :guitaristgif:
EDIT 2:
It's very strange to play them side by side, when they only differences is the wood types.
EDIT:
Same size specs, same trem, same fret wire, same pickups, same wiring, same nut, quite literally the same set up, just different body and neck woods, and mine is chambered.. and I don't think the chambered makes up THAT much of a difference, they really are quite different on tone.
Also since mine is lighter, it feels a bit more delicate.. which works with the sound it puts out rather well heh. :guitaristgif:
EDIT 2:
well it's like that whole "Dead spots on the headstock" what was that invention.. the fat finger or somethin?
I dunno about all that.. never tried one heh.
EDIT:
http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Groove-Tubes-Fat-Finger-Guitar-Sustain-Enhancer?sku=420270
that's a bit much for a bit of metal...
I dunno about all that.. never tried one heh.
EDIT:
http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Groove-Tubes-Fat-Finger-Guitar-Sustain-Enhancer?sku=420270
that's a bit much for a bit of metal...
Well ok then - how do you know it's the SPECIES of wood and not the chambered versus solid or different weights, or just the individual qualities of those particular pieces, only one quality of which is the species? Also, if they are hand wound boutique pickups there will be differences there as well, and no two setups are really identical.
Even your relatively controlled experiment, which is much better than most of the garbage info out there, has a lot of potential holes.
Why don't you record both strats, then swap the necks, record again, and see what happens? You could isolate body versus neck contribution to some extent.
Even your relatively controlled experiment, which is much better than most of the garbage info out there, has a lot of potential holes.
Why don't you record both strats, then swap the necks, record again, and see what happens? You could isolate body versus neck contribution to some extent.
it could be the pieces vs the species. I am sure it is not a black and white thing.
either way, it does proof that wood makes a difference as opposed to none.
and I am sure that the "tone-o-meters" on the W site is partly a marketing thing, but they have worked with different wood species for so many years, there has to be at least some truth to it.
either way, it does proof that wood makes a difference as opposed to none.
and I am sure that the "tone-o-meters" on the W site is partly a marketing thing, but they have worked with different wood species for so many years, there has to be at least some truth to it.
btw, I would love to hear their 'off the record' take on this :icon_biggrin:
oh more of my useless theories ("beliefs")
regardless of the tone, I am sure that wood adds to the sustain, but also the 'vibe' and overall personality of the guitar.
I just put one together last weekend, that had "instant mojo"..... which was a first for me, it usually takes some time. :laughing7:
I am sure all of this only makes sense to myself :sad1: :tard:
:icon_biggrin:oh more of my useless theories ("beliefs")
regardless of the tone, I am sure that wood adds to the sustain, but also the 'vibe' and overall personality of the guitar.
I just put one together last weekend, that had "instant mojo"..... which was a first for me, it usually takes some time. :laughing7:
I am sure all of this only makes sense to myself :sad1: :tard:
To quote Tfarny, quoting Ken Warmoth, again,
We’re glad to
answer questions about woods and tones, but this can really
be addressed in rather broad generalities, since there is no
exact science to it. Not only does each individual piece of
wood have its own tone, but everyone hears things a little dif -
ferently, and the spectrum of pickups available is just huge. It
is much easier to work on the dimensional specifications of a
piece than on the tone.
- Ken Warmoth 2002
We’re glad to
answer questions about woods and tones, but this can really
be addressed in rather broad generalities, since there is no
exact science to it. Not only does each individual piece of
wood have its own tone, but everyone hears things a little dif -
ferently, and the spectrum of pickups available is just huge. It
is much easier to work on the dimensional specifications of a
piece than on the tone.
- Ken Warmoth 2002
Thanks for finding that, it should be a sticky!
Oh, and I've been playing my cheapo poplar hardtail strat, it's on the heavy side (nearly 5 lb solid body). It has an absolutely gorgeous clear vibey strat tone. Because the pickups are bill lawrence, or because heavy azz poplar is the ideal tone wood? You decide....
Oh, and I've been playing my cheapo poplar hardtail strat, it's on the heavy side (nearly 5 lb solid body). It has an absolutely gorgeous clear vibey strat tone. Because the pickups are bill lawrence, or because heavy azz poplar is the ideal tone wood? You decide....
it may be possible that Squier Poplar is not as great as W poplar...
(actually is Warmoth Poplar not really poplar??????)
*Edit: there you go: per the W woods page:
Poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera)
Per Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liriodendron_tulipifera
Liriodendron tulipifera, commonly known as the American tulip tree, tulip poplar or yellow poplar
.........................blah blah......
Originally described by Linnaeus, Liriodendron tulipifera is one of two species in the genus Liriodendron in the magnolia family. It is also called the tuliptree Magnolia, or sometimes confusingly, tulip poplar or yellow poplar, although it is unrelated to the poplars of the family Salicaceae.
so you really have a tulip tree bodied strat!
(actually is Warmoth Poplar not really poplar??????)
*Edit: there you go: per the W woods page:
Poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera)
Per Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liriodendron_tulipifera
Liriodendron tulipifera, commonly known as the American tulip tree, tulip poplar or yellow poplar
.........................blah blah......
Originally described by Linnaeus, Liriodendron tulipifera is one of two species in the genus Liriodendron in the magnolia family. It is also called the tuliptree Magnolia, or sometimes confusingly, tulip poplar or yellow poplar, although it is unrelated to the poplars of the family Salicaceae.
so you really have a tulip tree bodied strat!
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