Mooncaster with "Charlie Christian" neck pickup?

[audiomath]

Does anyone have any experience with a Mooncaster and a "Charlie Christian" pickup?

I'm trying to come up with a "crossover" jazz tone without dedicating the guitar to jazz-only use - I have archtops for that.
I know nothing about Mooncasters or much about Warmoth, but I've been described with some accuracy as a "tone snob". I want to be able to dial in that dark, resonant, "juicy" tone for jazz on the neck pickup, then add the bridge to balance it out for a nice "clean". I'd prefer no twang or other "colorful" artifacts if I can get there.

Is this a reasonable place to start?  Never having had one in my hands, I'm making lots of assumptions about the Mooncaster, the primary one being that it looks like Warmoth's entry in the "ES335-like" category.

Thanks!

 

[Cagey]

First, welcome to the forum! I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say I hope you'll stick around and help us have fun goofing around with guitars and such.

I don't have any experience with the Charlie Christian pickups, but judging by the descriptions I've read the TV Jones parts would be similar. Harmonically rich and full range probably sums them up. Nice robust tone that would do well for jazz and probably be wasted running though an extensive SFX chain, but of a high quality that would give an SFX chain something to chew on (how's that for ambiguously non-committal?). If that's true, then I do have some experience with those in a Mooncaster. But, what can I say that'll mean anything? They sound great, but that's just me. To my brother, they sound... less than thrilling. We both can't be wrong; I must be right :laughing7:  Luckily, the guy that owns the guitar is over the moon with them, so life is good.

The Mooncaster body is a bit different than most semi-hollowbodies. Traditionally, semi-hollows like the 300 series from Gibson are a hybrid construction, with the neck attached to a solid block that has a more typical acoustic body built around it using bent/shaped flat stock and plywood, then drilled/routed for the electricals. The Mooncaster, on the other hand, starts life as a solid body, then they cut the top off, route out much of the interior, mill the top for the arch presentation, reattach the top, bind it to hide the surgery, put a fantastic finish on it and call it a love story. It's a very robust construction, but that also means that like any other semi-hollow, it's not really the acoustic guitar it looks like. Not a whole lotta resonance to it, is what I'm saying. More than a regular solid body such as a Strat, but that's a pretty low bar.

You'll probably get more of a jazz tone by using one of the mellower woods for the neck, such as Mahogany, and harder fretboard such as Ebony or Pau Ferro to get a bit of articulation out of the deal. Stainless frets, of course. Combine that with either the Charlie Christian or TV Jones pickups, and you'd end up with a very attractive and comfortable instrument that could speak a lotta languages.

 

[stratamania]

Here is a video of Tim Lerch using some Lollar CCs in a Tele.  Probably a similar tone can be got with them in a Mooncaster. Note the key word similar

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvdg4XTXYjw[/youtube]

 

[Logrinn]

And here's a video of Joe Gore with a Mooncaster-type guitar with two Charlie Christian pickups that's quite interesting:

[youtube]https://youtu.be/9PgPdi5gFYw[/youtube]

 

[Cagey]

That is interesting. Talk about speaking a lotta different languages... he gets quite a bit out of those things, doesn't he?

As an aside, I had an old Gibson ES-150 in here for repair last year. I normally don't work on guitars like that, but it was for a friend. Didn't have a Charlie Christian pickup in it, though. Looked like a P90 more than anything else...

Looking around, it seems they go for up to $6K, and the one I had here looked as good or better than the picture above. Very little fret wear, and had never been refretted. I wanted to replace bridge, the pickup, refret it with stainless and put some locking Schallers on it, but he said he preferred the noisiness, the awful sound and the inability to tune it, so sadly it's still quite the wrestling partner.

Some people's kids. Whaddaya gonna do?

 

[nullref]

Is this a reasonable place to start?  Never having had one in my hands, I'm making lots of assumptions about the Mooncaster, the primary one being that it looks like Warmoth's entry in the "ES335-like" category.

The closest ES guitar I can think of would be the Gibson CS 336 or 356.  Mahogany, Maple, and Rosewood goodness...  But I would imagine finding a YT video where someone routed out the neck pup would be a bit of a challenge.

Now after reading this thread, I kinda wanna try one out in my Thinline.

 

[audiomath]

Thanks for the considered replies.

Cagey, you answered my unasked question about the Mooncaster, namely whether it was a "real" semi-hollow or not. If not, then I may be better off starting with a Thinline, since Lerch sets a good example.   Where I part with him is that he tunes down a half-step. That would drive me and mine bonkers, or at least further in that direction. Perhaps TMI, but I do have some nerve compression and arthritis issues in my left hand and wrist, so I certainly understand where he's coming from with flatwound 12's being hard to play.

I do, in fact have a cheap Ibanez Artcore I've been using a test bed for a Lollar CC they sell in Humbucker, as well as the original nasty Gibson form factor. When I spoke with the folks at Lollar a couple of weeks ago, they (Austin, I think?) told me they'd also put a CC in a P90 dogear case, so I could try one on my old Alvarez ES-125 clone. I instead chose the Humbucker to start with so I could fit it on the (disposable) Ibanez, and if I ended up liking it I could put it on the Heritage Eagle Classic I pick up when my hands are feeling cooperative. That experiment has just begun, so no real data yet. I'm not sure the Ibanez was a good choice, so I need to be careful with my impressions.

Anyway - I'd like to put a Warmoth build together just to say I had, if nothing else. I'm no luthier, but I'm still working as an engineer with a background in audio and acoustics, so I'd like to see what I can do with a DIY build from good parts.

 

[TBurst Std]

Think of a Mooncaster as a Gibson Midtown.  A hollowed out solid body.  Having played one for a week, it is different from a semi hollow (es335) or a hollow (es330).

 

[bagman67]

Joe Gore, a madman guitar player and mad scientist inventor, has outfitted a Mooncaster with a Charlie C. pickup (actually a Lollar repro/near-dupe of same that drops into a conventional humbucker cavity).  See: 

[youtube]9PgPdi5gFYw[/youtube]

 

[mayfly]

Pssst...  Bagman...

...Cagey already posted that...

 

[Logrinn]

Actually ...

... I did ...

:icon_thumright:

 

[bagman67]

Apparently I'm a day late and a dollar short.  Sorry, kids.  Even so - I could listen to Joe Gore all day.  His noodling exceeds the best efforts of many folks who are giving it their all.

Yours sheepishly,

Bagman

 

[Hendrix]

I have order a wood mount "Charlie Christian" neck pickup, I will try to see how much mod need to done to fit in a P90 rout , it not ship yet .