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Metal picks?

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swarfrat

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I'm pretty happy with dunlop orange or fender mediums for electric guitar but on acoustic, I sometimes (often) use a quarter for flat picking. It's murder on strings, but hey strings are consumable, right? That's what the folks at D'Addario tell me.

The quarter is a bit thick obviously. The serrated edge helps a (quite) a bit (almost  too much - you do have to control it) with the top end - it's loud and boomy and glassy all at once. And I actually like the weight, just not the thickness.  It would be nice to get a tiny bit of flex.

Anyone playing metal picks have suggestions - brand, thickness, anything remotely like a high mass grippy pick with a semi-flexible edge out there?
 
Interesting. I never thought of using coins. Just tried it and I'm surprised at how manageable they are.
Thanks for the tip!

I had made a few out of brass from old broken cymbals, cutting them to the same size as a fender medium, way back in the 80's and they were interesting but nothing I'd want to use seriously.
 
swarfrat said:
...Anyone playing metal picks have suggestions - brand, thickness, anything remotely like a high mass grippy pick with a semi-flexible edge out there?

Since I tried this I haven't changed my pick which actually is the same pick I got five years ago, they are hard to wear them out. I use the .51 which is pretty thin, feels nice for chords but you can play hard and it doesn't bend at all. The sound is a little clearer. Not night & day differences but enough to not like other picks now. They are cheap too.

http://www.jimdunlop.com/product/Stainless-Steel-Picks
 
I don't know about speed, but I think the mass of the quarter helps my right hand phrasing. It feels faster too. I'll check out the Dunlops, guess you got to try em all.
 
BG supposedly uses a traintracked quarter.

A quarter is nominal 0.069"  thick and 5.6g. Dunlop sells stainless steel picks in 0.051", 0.038" and 0.020".  Sounds like something to check out.
 
Kostas said:
http://www.jimdunlop.com/product/Stainless-Steel-Picks

I have a couple of these laying around. I don't use them for gigs, but for practicing right hand techniques they're great. You can't rely on the flex in the pick when you're hitting notes since they're so stiff. You have to do the work.

The downside is they are hard on strings. I've kinked strings by hitting them too hard with the SS pick.
 
I've made some stainless ones, aluminum ones, and Titanium. And I prefer the Titanium.. :headbang1:
 
Dava makes an interesting pick with a nickel tip. I don't use it because I don't like the metallic clicking sound it makes. Here it is:

DavaMastercontrol.jpg
 
mrpinter said:
Dava makes an interesting pick with a nickel tip. I don't use it because I don't like the metallic clicking sound it makes. Here it is:

DavaMastercontrol.jpg
You're not using enough distortion... :headbang1:
 
The two on the left are Titanium, the two with holes are aluminum, the black one is stainless...Aluminum just plain suck, too soft, even 7075, which is a very tough aluminum.
picks2_zps42465988.jpg
 
I've made picks out of just about anything imaginable (except titanium! :sad1:) and I don't like metal picks. I've gone through all sorts of experiments regarding shape, size, density, width, grippy handles... I do like firm picks, I can play just fine with a totally rigid one. But I've gone pretty deep on "What should a pick do... what can a pick do... what can't a pick do..." What are these things made of, and where can I get some?"

As long as you're willing to do some modifications, one very wonderful attribute of a "great pick" is the ability to make drastically-different kinds of tones as a result of the angle you hold it at. You can only go to a the maximum thickness of 1.25mm, 1.35mm, round about there, before you start progressively losing tonal variation based on attack angle. Just applied physics. Now, you can make a 1.5mm Ultem pick a lot flatter/thinner where it contacts the strings, them buggers is tough. You can also thin out polycarbonate (Big Stubbys etc.) but it starts getting fragile if you take it too far. Most other materials begin to flex more the thinner you take them, which is sort-of exactly something you don't want - contrary direction.

The ideal point shape for maximum tone variation is - no surprise here - right around the angle of a standard Fender 351, call it 55 degrees or so, the point gets rounder. But as long as you're dicking with it, might as well take a big three-corner 346 shape to start. You can have three different points that way.

Take a 346, file it ("mill bastard" metal file is the only tool you really need, with some 220, 400 and 1500 wet-dry sandpaper); file it until there is a 0.50" long flat on each side, then round it back a bit. Shape the tips as desired, flatten 'em out - only you know what your customary angle of attack, so... think! :o :o Ouch. I know...

What is the deal killer for me on metal picks is that as soon as you angle them they sound way, way scratchy. If that's musical to you, fine. And another thing wrong with really thick picks is that they click. If that's musical to you, fine too. You can make really thick picks out of lighter materials, but they still click - it's just a wimpier click. When I put a Milliput casting epoxy handle on a pick, the click outcome is varied by the weight conductivity of the material. Ultem is so hard most all the weight of the handle applies to the clickiness parameter. Tortex (silica-filled delrin) is less clicky, and you can go thinner if you get the point right, more on that in a bit). Clayton's "acetal" is a great material, and just soft enough to "swallow" some of the handle's weight. I'd say raw delrin, real celluloid, and silica-hardened nylon (black Jazz III's) run neck and neck. Then unhardened nylon (red Jazz III"s), then everything else is too soft. Wood picks are a really dumb idea, except as jewelry or fashion accessory. They notch.

Regarding tip shape, if you think about it (OW! OW! OW!) using the shoulder of a 351 pick is about the most variation you could ever get. When you hold it perfectly flat (parallel) you get a very clear tone, but not much glide. When you tilt it say, 10 degrees it gets faster but scrapier. If you hold it a 30 degrees, you get nothing. Swish, swish, swish. So they need to get pointier than that. But totally pointy is fairly beastial, too. If you take it to the extreme, you really need a right hand attack that is both strong and minute-motions  - that combination takes a while (years, no shirt, Shetlock)  - tiny-but-strong motions. Like Bruce Lee, resting his hand ON your chest - but still able to rip your heart out. Contrast to Townsend's windmills....

So my desert island picks are an "acetal" Clayton three-corner (346) 1.26mm, modified with flatter sides; a red Dunlop Jazz III XL, point slightly rounded, with an epoxy handle; a Dunlop 1.0mm Ultex three corner, also modded in shape & with handle; and secret weapon, D'Andrea big celluloid 346 triangles, sides somewhat flattened,  5/32" smaller overall, with or without handle. 1.21mm or the "Plec" 1.5mm. All thinned and jacked with. Celluloid really does sound best, but - it notches too.

http://www.bigcitystring.com/pxcell.htm
http://www.bigcitystring.com/proplec.htm

But I usually use a thumbpick anyway. :hello2:

To me, it seems really bizarre to see somebody with 5 kinds of overdrives on his kick-board thingamajig - but only one kind of guitar pick?!? :icon_scratch:





P.S. - Around 1980-82, I made picks out of just about everything you'll ever see on eBay - steel, shells, 1/16", 1/8", 1/4" plexiglass, rocks, all them wierd woods, bones, teeth (don't ask) and I was living in Tallahassee and actually making a bit of money on them, and at least free admittance to every bar gig in town. Then Jim Dunlop came out with Tortex and the Jazz III's and crushed my hopes & DREAMS. Took me a whole six-pack to recover. These guys (Dunlop, Mark Clayton) really have figured out the best possible materials; what do you thing they do all day?  And the Wegen picks are marginally "worth" it based on labor time, but spending all day to make something that a machine can make in milliseconds; well it's your money. And the Blue Chip and the Red Bear stuff is insane; IF SOMEBODY TELLS YOU TO USE A METAL FILE TO GRIND OUT THE NOTCHES, IT AIN'T NO BETTER THAN ULTEM OR ACETAL OR TORTEX. V-Picks for pete's sakes, go buy a whole sheet of lexan! Just because something is really hard to make doesn't make it any better.... it just makes it expensive. When you see people who are clearly listening through their wallet rather than their ears, ask yourself - "What is that wallet closest to?"




 
Well, one thing I WAS trying to get was that stiffness in a thinner pick than the super thick slabs some guys play with. It needs to give...a little. But if you're worried about a little click, you and I are probably NOT after the same goal. This is like the 'If there were no such thing as electric guitars, I need some kind of weapon capable of inflicting AC/DC sort of levels of arresting/aggressive/slap/punch/kick on acoustic guitar" (Ironically enough, that aggressive attack  is as much about muting as it is about picking) . Yes, if you lazily drag the serrated edge of the quarter across the strings, you get all glass. But when you have a firm grip and fast attack and are punching it hard... it's actually not really as bright as you might think. Actually, it kind of maintains some of the bell top end of a thinner pick, but at high volume it's really not all that strident.
 
Anyone know of a source for Dunlop 46RF5's in less than 100ct? $20 is a bit steep for 0.051" shims if I don't like em. Sort of ironic too, as I'd expect them to last a bit longer than acetal or nylon.

 
So very sith-like. Anyway, the question was about variations and sources, not so much soliciting contrary opinions.
 
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