Link on easy way to shim a Floyd to match a Warmoth radius

[Dan025]

wow now considering the length of the guitar at 25.5, i think it's more than 18. id say 20" then.
now what does this mean, a 10" shim or a 16" shim? are we talking about their thicknesses?

did you not read the long post in this thread about the shims? The shims are 2 mm - - the homemade shims are described as 1 mm

the 18' radius at the bridge is described using 3 E string shims and 1 A&B string shims.

that's 0.2mm and 0.1mm respectively for the thickness of each shim. or in american .008" and .004"

and gregg knows his stuff if he says 18.5 its 18.5, he wouldn't say 18.5 if it was 20, the warmoth compound is measured at the nut and the last fret, not the 12th fret which is the middle of the string. i think the 18.5 number is close  approximation however the differences in the height of the arc between 18" and 19" are a matter of a couple thousandths of an inch so its kinda negligable.

 

[compound2]

that's 0.2mm and 0.1mm respectively for the thickness of each shim. or in american .008" and .004"

and gregg knows his stuff if he says 18.5 its 18.5, he wouldn't say 18.5 if it was 20, the warmoth compound is measured at the nut and the last fret, not the 12th fret which is the middle of the string. i think the 18.5 number is close  approximation however the differences in the height of the arc between 18" and 19" are a matter of a couple thousandths of an inch so its kinda negligable.

well buddy, pal, didn't this 'gregg' also say
"For Warmoth compound necks, use the 18" row for radius at bridge to find out what to add. For some other compound neck, you'll need to estimate or calculate your fretboard radius at the bridge ( the radius flattens as you get closer to the bridge for a compound neck.)"

 

[Dan025]

im not sure what your getting at, but 20" is too much for either compound radius mentioned in this thread so im guessing you aren't estimating right and that's what i was getting at. the shims are an approximation, the best that you can do with a shim of a particular thickness a guide was provided for how many to use and where, i can figure that out as well, do you want to use strips of an old coke can as mentioned? how many frets on your neck?  we can figure this out if you like.

so you have a 12-16" compound radius
25.5" scale
floyd rose bridge presumably w/10" radius

now we need to know how far from the nut the 16" measurment is taken. it is presumably at the last fret, but since the differences in radius are so small from one fret to the next it would be easier to do the math at the 24th fret or where that would land assuming you had one.
that would be 19.125" from the nut.

that gives a .20915" change in radius per inch from the nut. starting at 12" radius that's 17-1/3" at the bridge.

to figure out the shims exactly i would need the string spacing. but you can go by the sugestion for an 18" radius, it's not that different.

 

[Cagey]

All of which points out yet another reason to avoid the Floyd.

Never could understand the attraction to those things.

 

[GoDrex]

Never could understand the attraction to those things.

they don't go out of tune and you can make lots of weird sounds with them.

 

[Cagey]

I understand that much, but you can get the same performance out of the Wilkinsons without all the complication and aggravation, plus they're about half the cost.

 

[compound2]

im not sure what your getting at, but 20" is too much for either compound radius mentioned in this thread so im guessing you aren't estimating right and that's what i was getting at. the shims are an approximation, the best that you can do with a shim of a particular thickness a guide was provided for how many to use and where, i can figure that out as well, do you want to use strips of an old coke can as mentioned? how many frets on your neck?  we can figure this out if you like.

so you have a 12-16" compound radius
25.5" scale
floyd rose bridge presumably w/10" radius

now we need to know how far from the nut the 16" measurment is taken. it is presumably at the last fret, but since the differences in radius are so small from one fret to the next it would be easier to do the math at the 24th fret or where that would land assuming you had one.
that would be 19.125" from the nut.

that gives a .20915" change in radius per inch from the nut. starting at 12" radius that's 17-1/3" at the bridge.

to figure out the shims exactly i would need the string spacing. but you can go by the sugestion for an 18" radius, it's not that different.

ok now going by the suggestion i tried to match it up accordingly
why is it that the A or the 5th string comes always lower than the the 6th string. so i had to put some more shims UNDER THAT saddle. do you know what i mean?
i know the radius of the bridge or saddles is a good 10". i can certainly see that by reading the arch with a radius gauge, but i just don't understand this. can you try to speculate what it might be please?

 

[Dan025]

ok im not sure what you mean, are you asking why the # of shims is less on the A string or are you actually getting lower action on the A string? because that would be really odd.

if you mean that you have already shimed it and then the action seems too low on the "A" it may be that the guy that made up that chart just did the math and the fewer number of shims was closer to the ideal measurement, it may work better with the shims layed out slightly differently.

 

[compound2]

ok im not sure what you mean, are you asking why the # of shims is less on the A string or are you actually getting lower action on the A string? because that would be really odd.

if you mean that you have already shimed it and then the action seems too low on the "A" it may be that the guy that made up that chart just did the math and the fewer number of shims was closer to the ideal measurement, it may work better with the shims layed out slightly differently.

Yes!! im actually getting lower action on the A string. i over-shimmed the fuker but still. what is your understanding of a situation like this? would you say i may wanna swap the saddles?
but it seems perfectly fine. or it's just that A string that comes up really low; or the D string too high or the E string seems thicker. i can come up with a lot of probabilities.

 

[Dan025]

ok well you need to inspect everything. do you have a full set of radius gages? if you have one that's about 17.5" you need to shim untill it fits the gage pretty good, there are many thing that can be going on here, i dont have a floyd rose in front of me and i haven't owned one for years.

are the saddles all different heights or is the bridge plate stepped? i really cant remember. if the saddles create the radius then at some point it may have gotten switched around, if the radius comes from the bridge plate then maybe a saddle was replaced with one from another manufacturer or manufactured wrong or something is seriously worn out. if the bridge plate has no obvious defect maybe you can change the saddles or find the best place for each one to get your final radius with the fewest number of shims, i wish i can see just what you are looking at though.

 

[compound2]

ok well you need to inspect everything. do you have a full set of radius gages? if you have one that's about 17.5" you need to shim untill it fits the gage pretty good, there are many thing that can be going on here, i dont have a floyd rose in front of me and i haven't owned one for years.

are the saddles all different heights or is the bridge plate stepped? i really cant remember. if the saddles create the radius then at some point it may have gotten switched around, if the radius comes from the bridge plate then maybe a saddle was replaced with one from another manufacturer or manufactured wrong or something is seriously worn out. if the bridge plate has no obvious defect maybe you can change the saddles or find the best place for each one to get your final radius with the fewest number of shims, i wish i can see just what you are looking at though.

yeah
the bridge plate is fine. i wasn't in a situation where i could swap them, so... i went ahead and raised the A string. it worked. while the radius of the bridge ain't no 18 or fairly close, i see a huge difference now.
due to alternating downward and upward picking continuously i wasn't really paying attention to the set-up flaw but however now i can tell it's a better feeling. im sure i can improve that by making the saddles flatter.
...perhaps later.
thank you.

 

[Dan025]

no problem, even if i was a little agitated at first, it was because of other things.

 

[ORCRiST]

Is all a matter of personal taste. If your neck has a straight 10 " radius, then that is a perfect match to the Original Floyd bridge radius. That said, do people pair up an Original Floyd Trem with a compound radius without shimming? All the time. Does it make a noticeable difference to shim? Depends on the player and how you like your set up to feel.

As a footnote, a Schaller Floyd bridge has a 14" radius. It still uses the 10" radues locking nut though.

Just doing some research on this topic (great article/sticky BTW) - thought I'd do some follow-up with Schaller as I have a Schaller FR, per their website:

"Our long-term experience with the production of the Original Floyd Rose™ tremolo has gone into the development of this identical tremolo. Exchangeable knife edges made of hardened steel and cast steel saddles, combined with a solid tremolo block provide perfect sound transmission and an extremely long sustain. Also available as lefthand version. The tremolo radius is 12", the radius of the nut element is 10"."

So, can I assume that to properly shim a 12" radius Schaller FR with a Warmoth compound radius neck, using the chart at the beginning of the thread - I should use the 16" entry on the table for shims? (12" FR radius + 16" table entry = 18" end radius at the bridge as suggested by Gregg for a Warmoth CR neck?)

Thanks!

ORC

 

[Dan025]

^ that would get you close but it's not that simple, but since the shims are an aproximation anyway ill go ahead and say yeah! otherwise it's alot of math and explaining for an answer that might actually wind up being identical just because we need to round the numbers in the end to the thickness of the shims

 

[drex]

Great tutorial.  :headbang:

I bought an OFR from Warmoth. Now I need to shim saddles for my guitar neck radius. My guitar is Ibanez rg470 MIJ. And it has rg570 Wizard II neck. (16" - 400mm raidus) I made shims with coke cans.

My shims :

I think that coke cans height is .1mm. In first post, Table I (below) says that use 2 shims for  E strings (I mean 2x .2mm = .4mm) for 16" radius. But table II says that use .5mm. for E strings   I made shims with coke cans.  So how much shim should  I use for E strings with 16" neck radius ? (4 piece or 5 piece) :help:

Thanks.


Table I  (.2mm factory shims)
Fingerboard Radius (at bridge) / E strings # shims / A and B strings # shims
10" / 0 / 0
12" / 1 / 0
14" / 2 / 1
16" / 2 / 1
18" / 3 / 1

Table II (I think, these measures are for coke cans shims)
Fingerboard Radius (at bridge) / E strings / A and B strings
10" / none / none
12" / .2 mm / .1 mm
14" / .4 mm / .2 mm
16" / .5 mm / .2 mm
18" / .6 mm / .2 mm

 

[Cagey]

With these kinds of things, you hope for the best and plan for the worst. If an upper register fret is a thousandth too tall, perhaps none of those dimensions will mean anything. If the gods aren't smiling on you the day you do the adjustment you'll be buzzy, have dead spots, or fret out on bends. So, you install what seems right, then adjust for reality from there. It's a real pain in the shorts, particularly on Floyds. I don't know what those guys were thinking about when they designed that bridge.

 

[Lagavulin]

Cool topic! I'll revive this saying that my solution to this would be to choose a Schaller Floyd (12'') with a nut of 10'' and use a straight 11'' fretboard radius (I like 12'' radius but 11'' would be close I guess). It might work with 12'' equally well too though.

 

[drex]

Thanks for replies. Then I will find correct setup by trying shims.

 

[DangerousR6]

Do you need to shim your floyd for every neck?  i haven't installed my floyd on my warmoth yet and was wondering if i needed to do so.  my neck is a warmoth pro.

I've got several with the Warmoth compound neck and Floyds, and not shimmed the bridge, and to me they play just fine....But I'm not Mr. Nitpickinstein, so I guess it's as Gregg stated, it's just a matter of how it feels to you... :dontknow:

 

[Strat Avenger]

I know this is an old thread, but...

I can definitely feel the difference of the Floyd radius on the 16-inch compound radius fretboard.
I never shimmed it, but I plan on doing so.

I'm not a big user of the vibrato bar, but I like the feel, sound, and fine tuners of the Floyd.